and then there was AGD.........

[Lone Gunman]

Hey Butters, I got two words for ya: WOOT WOOT!

You just got hosed demon!

[mykroft]

Angel's top out at about 18bps as a max cyclic speed. the board/Solenoid are capable of more, but the stock configuration is pretty much limited to ~18 (bit faster for LED with it's lighter bolt), as manike posted many moons ago. Shootdown below 10bps, I don't think so, unless it's a problem with the Minireg (which I don't use anyways). I get a pretty darn tight pattern at 11-12bps, same pattern I get at 5, my Angel Chrony's ate +/-2 on a bad day, I'm not seeing shootdown. Fastest I've ever seen an angel shoot in semi is about 15bps, juggled or rolled(As I have mentioned before, I have a friend, a speed metal guitarist with 8+ years experience, who is absolutely insane on a trigger, especially one that can be rolled or juggled). I personally top out at 12, more like 8-10 in a game.

E-Mag, capable of faster speed than an Angel, have yet to see one shot very fast in straight semi, trigger can't be juggled or rolled, but it's insane in hybrid.

Matrix: Anybody can shoot these fast, 20 is achievable when rolling the trigger, after a trigger job. I top out around 15-16 when rolling the trigger, I've seen it do 20 in short bursts (8-10 balls) with a 12V warp. It's supposed to top out at 22.

Hinge Cocker: With a Blade, I'm as fast as I am on an Angel. By far the fastes mechanical gun IN MY HANDS.

The fact is, most people can't do more than the 11-12bps that every good hopper feeds at. So some people are faster on some guns than others. I'm fastest on an Angel or blade hinged Cocker, when not rolling the trigger, others are faster on an E-Mag or VM-68. It's all preference folks. Firing rates over 17-18 a second really don't matter beyond keeping the recharge as fast as possible under 18bps or so.

[RT_Luver]

WAY TO GO...now with Lvl 10 on our side, I say there will be more of the like hopefully. to heck with angels and cockers....GO E-MAG

[RaV3n_Pa1ntba||]

Only if i had a Video Cam.

I pulled of 19bps (F/A of course) easy on my angel, no chops, no skips, barely any noticeable drop off.

GG emag

[Butterfingers]

are you sure? It was 19 BPS? or was it 52.6ms between shots?

If you read it off the ROF calc on the angel it is not 19 BPS but rather your fastest 2 shots were 52.6ms apart.

[SqueegeeKid]

I find it kinda weird that back when Angels came out everyone was saying they were sooooo fast. It could outshoot a revvy and all that. Well, back then the revy was the only electronic hopper, no newfangled HALOS feeding like a madman.

Now that a Mag can shoot faster than any other gun it doesn't seem important, cause no hopper/human can keep up.

Well, i think that's kinda funny, AGD's feeding all the AngelWhores their propaganda back to em.

[Havoc_online]

I think you may have meant VL200?

yeap, my bad.

You just got hosed demon!

guys c'mon, don't egg it on. Thanks for backing me up on the facts but this guy was venting and just got caught on the wrong side of a debate. Remember, he is still part of this forum. Sorry demon, but you've got to be careful on what you say on this board because everything needs common sense, logic, and proof.

[ICOM]

Angel owners know their wrong about the rof so there saying " i got 19 bps on my angel" and stuff like that. They don't want to tell the truth about it.

[demonguy8]

perhaps....

maybe i was trying to be a little bit to politcally correct about my 1st post for it too be clear(ironically it was made that way to NOT offend people).... for that I'm sorry

the point of it all was that it is ignorant to claim that ANY EMAG will OUTSHOOT ANY angel.
a point which Havoc recognized and responded to civily...(thank you for keeping it civil havoc)

My second point was that the RATE OF FIRE is the same some odd 97% of the time simply because of human limitations on pulling a trigger.(I did not say cycling rate was the same NOR did i say there would be no droppoff for the angel, Butter and Frausty please READ a post fully before responding).

Ill make this look more mathamatical for you guys:

-the shooters best trigger speed: variable X
-max cyclic rate on angel(semi)= 18bps
-max cylic rate on rt= variable R, and R>30(credit to butters for a more accurate description of R)
-now a paintball must be fired for it to count as being Shot (as opposed to cycled)
-there must be one trigger pull for each ball fired (semi mode)
-halo feeds paint= 20bps* (if its greater than 20 deal with it because its only here as an example of limits to the max shooting rate)
-Since the guns need paint to be fired the Angels max shooting rate is still 18(since it cant cycle at 20) while the RTs max shooting rate drops to 20(since halo cant feed to 30+)

if everyone is still with me... ALL my above post was saying was that since 18>x, that R>18 IS MEANINGLESS FOR SEMI PLAY!, R>18>x means that BOTH THE ANGELS AND THE RTS MAX SHOOTING RATE IS REDUCED TO X!... x=x (last time i checked) so they have the SAME SHOOTING RATE WHILE IN SEMI MODE

18>x means 18 bps is greater than the fastest a human can pull the trigger in semi mode.....
if you dont't believe me post a vid of somone doing it, prove me wrong, and I will RECANT MY STATEMENT THAT THEY HAVE THE SAME ROF FOR SEMI MODE AND MAKE A PUBLIC APOLOGY.

NOTE: thank you to all the ppl that replied with thought out and backed up arguments.
TO the uncivil and the people who posted with no useful info.... find another thread to postwhore in please.

[manike]

Whilst X is an unlimited variable your equation is not valid.

Once X>18 your points are moot. And since X is not limited by the gun or any software it is theoretically possible for X>18.

Since this is the case the marker which has the greatest cyclic rate must be the marker which has the greatest potential for ROF. And thus the one which has the potential to outshoot the other.

It is ignorant to claim otherwise.

It may be very difficult to acheive X>18 but it is not impossible (very few things are) and depends very much on what is a legal method of achieving X.

As you point out the markers rof is limited to X WHILST X<18. After that (once X>18) the markers rof is limited to cycle rate. Thus the limit to potential ROF and thus the only valid value to compare in such a discussion about potential ROF is their cycle rate.

You made a very nice post but didn't prove anything

Whilst in practice the same person may achieve the same value of X on each gun, the highest possible value of X that can be achieved is with the E-mag in comparison to the Angel.

Thus any e-mag COULD outshoot any angel. (Note I did not use the term 'will').

manike

[Butterfingers]

Yes the E-mag has the potential to outshoot an angel by a wide margin but in most cases the potential will never be realized.

[Havoc_online]

another thought to add, as far as I have heard and know, the Emag trigger can be made lighter than that of the angel's, therefore making it easier to achieve a higher ROF. You have to take into consideration that they not only cycle at different speeds but have a different trigger. BTW the HALO B can feed slightly higher than 20BPS and so can a 12v warp.

[demonguy8]

hmm

i understand your point... (and yours was a nicely thought out post) but I cant believe that a human being is capable of makeing X>18... (Im one who must see it to believe it)
X itself is limited by a humans ability to pull the trigger... which is as i stated less than 18 a second.
A rate which I suppose Im debating to be impossible(like a great many things are) for a human to do in semi mode...

Once again if somone can get a vid. proving me wrong I will recant/apologize but until then I will stand by my statements...

I guess you had a nice post but it didnt prove anything to me the same way as mine didnt to you

perhaps we should make a open challenge thread to see if infact anyone(here atleast) can do faster than 18 in semi?? (note: *HYBRID DOES COUNT AS SEMI* as far as im concerned since i assume someone would probably pick an emag to test with since it has the !2nd highest! cyclic rate *standard rts are capable of a higher cyclic =D* combined with a great trigger)

[Havoc_online]

perhaps we should make a open challenge thread to see if infact anyone(here atleast) can do faster than 18 in semi?? (note: *HYBRID DOES COUNT AS SEMI* as far as im concerned since i assume someone would probably pick an emag to test with since it has the !2nd highest! cyclic rate *standard rts are capable of a higher cyclic =D* combined with a great trigger)

what does the 18 matter, what matters from your point of view is how fast the same person can shoot both guns isnt it?(BTW in any case, anyone who hit at least the mid teens would have better shot to shot consistency with the Emag)

Emag valve's and RT valve's can both perform at the same level and cycling speed.

[demonguy8]

3 reasons

1. im bored.
2. a little friendly controversy/competition makes forums much more entertaining...
3. im actually curious to see if someone CAN do it