*video* racegun cocker at 20bps

[DarkRipper]

Originally posted by Vern1

As for the RaceGrip, I have owned a few and installed and tuned quite a few more on various markers from stock to heavily modified and they do quit just like anything else.

Thanks for reading....

Congratulations.

My experience is exactly the opposite. Where does that put us? Nowhere.

I'm not saying raceguns are better than mags, I'm just saying that they aren't like the old e-cockers that had a justified reputation for not being reliable. I'm sure there are lemons. Thank you for pointing this out.

Thank you for also totally missing the point of what I was saying. I guess in your rush to naysay me you missed it. Whatever. I'm used to it online by now.



DR

[DarkRipper]

Originally posted by cphilip


Well this one too! So what the point?

I don't get it.

:)
DR

[Marek]

DarkRipper,
I don't think that Vern1 was posting directly to you. To me, it seemed as if he was stating what he has experienced using/fixing up guns. Its just a different point of view to shed some light on the subject. Might be right, might be wrong. Dont think its an attack on u or ur gun tho.

[kutter]

Vern1, your logic behind the accuracy of a barrel which screws in vs. one that has a twist lock fitting could make sense, assuming that the twist lock suffered some play, even a small amout would make a difference. But by that same argument then a Micromag or Extreme/SFL would be just as accurate since they have cocker threading? Besides I know that on my Micro and my SFL both after a game of really hammering on the trigger the barrel will frequently be a little loose, I refuse to just crank down on it since the barrel is stainless and the bodies aluminum.

Personally calling a paintball accurate is something of a misnomer, it is for all prectical purposes, a water balloon, and will behave like one. It distorts as it moves, does not have even close to perfect symetry, and it is filled, completely we hope, with a liquid. Of course the argument was never really about accuracy, but distance, and I think its safe to say that its been debunked.

But I agree with all you about doing it just for the sake of doing it. Sometimes its just plain fun to see what happens, and the results are at times more than you could hope for. Just ask Carol Shelby

[Butterfingers]

Originally posted by Vern1
Greetings,

Yeah, right up until they quit.

It's usually something stupid(self induced) like:
Forgot to charge it and the battery ran down in TWO DAYS!
Or you dry fired it until it shook the valve retaining nut out and completely destroyed the body.
Or the keypad quit working for no reason what-so-ever until you unplug and re-plug the battery.

When they work, they do work like magic.
When they don't - they don't - just like any other broken marker.
For the most part, they work and are fairly reliable.
Just use lots of locktite - preferably red.
From a purely mechanical standpoint, they are a beauty to behold with all that stuff wizzing around in sync.

Back to the video: Cool video, but full auto is LAME!
I mean, it's cool to show the capabilities of a marker or hopper, but show us something we, the average player, can really use on a field or tourney - semi auto, one shot, one pull - not someone just holding the trigger down.

As for accuracy/trajectory I offer this tidbit, I don't think it has been approached quite like this before: If you are shooting the same paint thru the same barrel at the same velocity, the TRAJECTORY should be the same, but the accuracy or shot grouping can be very different due to the stability of the launching platform.
Example, I'll use Mags and Cockers as that's what this arguement is about(don't flame me too bad!!):
Cockers use a tight fitting threadded barrel on a heavier, more stable platform.
Most Mags use a slip fit barrel with play - side to side and up and down and are generally lighter or less stable.
That may be part of the answer to the Cocker/Mag accuracy issues.
These are opinions based on observations and have absolutely no scientific backup, so don't beat me up with physics lessons.
As for the RaceGrip, I have owned a few and installed and tuned quite a few more on various markers from stock to heavily modified and they do quit just like anything else.

Thanks for reading....

I can see where you are coming from but if you take the sin of the angle of deviance in respect to a given range in a given mag barrel the maximum mathmatical deviation will be only a few inches at 50 yards. Most people are hindered by orders of magnitude more by thier ability to aim.

A say a .25 degree variance in the play of a loosely fitting mag barrel without o-rings.

50 Sin(.25)= .47 yrds (about 7 inches) at the max effective range of the paintball gun.

With o-rings the barrel does not move significantly at all. One can expect the deviation to be negliagable.

[netjunk1e]

Originally posted by Butterfingers




A say a .25 degree variance in the play of a loosely fitting mag barrel without o-rings.

50 Sin(.25)= .47 yrds (about 7 inches) at the max effective range of the paintball gun.

With o-rings the barrel does not move significantly at all. One can expect the deviation to be negliagable.

Yahoo! Someone actually used data to back up thier point in this thread! Good job. Im sure glad that guy got banned too(but why tempory! i really don't like him). Well thanks for the logic, it really makes sence now.

[DarkRipper]

Originally posted by Marek
DarkRipper,
I don't think that Vern1 was posting directly to you. To me, it seemed as if he was stating what he has experienced using/fixing up guns. Its just a different point of view to shed some light on the subject. Might be right, might be wrong. Dont think its an attack on u or ur gun tho.

It's possible.. I was a bit grumpy when I posted that. Apologies all around.

DR

[kutter]

A say a .25 degree variance in the play of a loosely fitting mag barrel without o-rings.

Butterfingers please take this in the nicest way but, YOU ARE A GEEK! But I still hold you in the highest regard

Oh and regarding ddindc's little comment about you using leaches on him for medical practices, well I guess he is not aware that they are still used today. As I recall in amputations to encourage bloodflow to the lost limb, but its just something I read somewhere so I cold be wrong.

[obsolete898]

^^^ you would be correct. We also use maggots on sores that will not heal. Maggots only eat dead flesh.

There was a show on discovery about animals in medicine. The worst part was this guy who had diabetes. He had a sore on his foot that would not heal, so they did a maggot treatment. Seeing maggots in a fresh foot sore is vile and disgusting. It helped heal his sore.:)

[Marek]

A say a .25 degree variance in the play of a loosely fitting mag barrel without o-rings.

50 Sin(.25)= .47 yrds (about 7 inches) at the max effective range of the paintball gun.

With o-rings the barrel does not move significantly at all. One can expect the deviation to be negliagable.

Huh? Guess thats the reason y I went to music school...

[Army]

Well, we don't edit, warn, or ban members for being as stupid as ddindc, so I let it ride for a while. But I looked away too long and the fireballs were flying! Thanks for catching this one Phil:)

[Lone Brain Cell]

RE: ddindc

So....Do we all expect to see this moron in the news in the next few day walking into a Post office!

I tellya, The thing about having as big a population as the States is these types seem to be out in force.

Dont get me wrong, we have em here too, but as soon as we see signs of what I have read tonight, we take em fishing for white pointers the boat is heaps lighter when we return and the world is a better place for it too!

[Vern1]

Greetings,
I am not offended or put off by anyones opinion.
Just like mine, they are opinions.

I do try to look at the big picture and am always open to other folks ideas, opinions and real hard data. I love shooting different kinds of markers. You never know when you will find one YOU LIKE better!
I really want to try the Capos E-Mag!

I am not slamming the RaceGun, they are one of the better E-Frames out there. I just don't think the STOCK cocker was desiged for the stress that is put on it by the very fast movement of the parts and the resulting harmonics induced into the body and attached parts. Put them together with lots of locktite and they will usually live, but there is no substitute for MAINTENANCE. If you read the post, notice I said MOSTLY SELF INDUCED problems and lack of maintenance falls into that catagory as does abusing the marker by dry firing it until it comes apart. Yes, I have actually seen this happen a few times. Since I am the tech that put the grip on and then have to repair it, I HAVE SEEN IT.

As for Mags, no I don't presently use one. I have owned a few and I have also owned Spyders, Cockers, Bushies, Defiants, Angels, Rebels, Sheridans, and the list goes on and on. Does that make me any better than anyone else? NO, I just have a little experience with them. I won't try to gloss over a turd if I have tried it and it was not up to par, but at the same time, if I haven't tested to tried something, I will tell you that, too.

What do I shoot?
Generally Intimidators - OK, go ahead and slam me all you want for that. But, they work for me until I find something I THINK is better. But what I THINK is just an opinion also and solely mine.

As for the opinion on accuracy/range, that was just an opinion thrown out there for the collective think tanks to analize and chop up - I also said MOST MAGs have twist lock barrels, not all of them, but the twist lock is what the majority of folks use.

The problem with that .25 degree of freedom is most folks shoot, then compensate by moving the marker. If it shoots 2 inches to the left on the first shot, they MOVE 2 inches to the right, then suppose the barrel moves that .25 degrees to the right, now you are hitting 4 inches to the right of the first shot, so they over-compensate to the left.
This can bring new meaning to the term Hunting for the target. Again, this is just an opinion and I really like a non-threatening DISCUSSION of different folks experiences.

It is hard to not be biased, but I really, really try.

Thanks for reading - Let's play some paintball - THAT'S what it is all about!

[FooTemps]

Originally posted by ddindc
I'm not stupping, just defending. And there will be no end to this argument, as you do not accept my premise, and I don't accept yours. I voiced an opinion about mags, and the cult members came out in droves. Listen, in parting, let me give you this bit of advice. If Tom Kaye tells you there is a space ship waiting for all the members of AO behid the tale of a comet, and that all you have to do is castrate yourself and comit suicide to board it and fly to paradise, don't belive him! Now good day, bakka gaijin.

You spelled baka gaijin wrong! hahahahaha... I just noticed that. Move on.

[314159]

i started reading this thread, and stopped about half way through because it was making me sick. i feel sorry for WhoDaresPlay hosting a angel forum on a mostly mag board.

there is a lot more to your game than the marker that you shoot.