*video* racegun cocker at 20bps

[joeyjoe367]

Originally posted by DiRTyBuNNy
yes..but you see my point...i don't know why people waste their time engineering stupid stuff like this...what they should do is take all their engineering know how and go build their own marker from the ground up with this kind of technology...

OMG! SOoooOOoOoOoOo TRUE!

[Butterfingers]

Vern,

ALL discussions are welcome here on AO as long as you have relevant points to back up your claims. Which you do. You make good points.

Logical discussion makes people think and consider other points of view which is also a very good thing. You seem like a person who knows what he is talking about and that is always welcome on AO.

Being biased is ok in fact it is at some times even encouraged as long as the arguement is structured in a manner that is non-inflamatory and logically sound.

So please don't feel like you are part of the out crowd. You are not threatening us and we pose no threat to you. You are just as welcome as all of us auto-maggots :)

This goes for everybody.


Back to the barrel discussion. :)

While your point is sound. The expression stated predicts the extreme deviation. Given a tight fitting barrel and o-rings the barrel does not deviate at all. It wiggles no more than a threaded barrel.

Originally posted by Vern1
Greetings,
I am not offended or put off by anyones opinion.
Just like mine, they are opinions.

I do try to look at the big picture and am always open to other folks ideas, opinions and real hard data. I love shooting different kinds of markers. You never know when you will find one YOU LIKE better!
I really want to try the Capos E-Mag!

I am not slamming the RaceGun, they are one of the better E-Frames out there. I just don't think the STOCK cocker was desiged for the stress that is put on it by the very fast movement of the parts and the resulting harmonics induced into the body and attached parts. Put them together with lots of locktite and they will usually live, but there is no substitute for MAINTENANCE. If you read the post, notice I said MOSTLY SELF INDUCED problems and lack of maintenance falls into that catagory as does abusing the marker by dry firing it until it comes apart. Yes, I have actually seen this happen a few times. Since I am the tech that put the grip on and then have to repair it, I HAVE SEEN IT.

As for Mags, no I don't presently use one. I have owned a few and I have also owned Spyders, Cockers, Bushies, Defiants, Angels, Rebels, Sheridans, and the list goes on and on. Does that make me any better than anyone else? NO, I just have a little experience with them. I won't try to gloss over a turd if I have tried it and it was not up to par, but at the same time, if I haven't tested to tried something, I will tell you that, too.

What do I shoot?
Generally Intimidators - OK, go ahead and slam me all you want for that. But, they work for me until I find something I THINK is better. But what I THINK is just an opinion also and solely mine.

As for the opinion on accuracy/range, that was just an opinion thrown out there for the collective think tanks to analize and chop up - I also said MOST MAGs have twist lock barrels, not all of them, but the twist lock is what the majority of folks use.

The problem with that .25 degree of freedom is most folks shoot, then compensate by moving the marker. If it shoots 2 inches to the left on the first shot, they MOVE 2 inches to the right, then suppose the barrel moves that .25 degrees to the right, now you are hitting 4 inches to the right of the first shot, so they over-compensate to the left.
This can bring new meaning to the term Hunting for the target. Again, this is just an opinion and I really like a non-threatening DISCUSSION of different folks experiences.

It is hard to not be biased, but I really, really try.

Thanks for reading - Let's play some paintball - THAT'S what it is all about!

[lillfroboy]

i want it

[wrex69]

heated heated heated

well,
that was really entertianing. the most entertianing thread I have ever read on this board. I love my mag but I hate my teamates mag. I love my other teamates angel. but could not part with that kind of loots$$$ if it works shoot it. I think mags turn the girls on more though

[Vern1]

Greetings,
I view a good discussion as a learning experience!
Argueing just gets your blood pressure up and can ruin your day, so why bother?

Butterfingers wrote:

While your point is sound. The expression stated predicts the extreme deviation. Given a tight fitting barrel and o-rings the barrel does not deviate at all. It wiggles no more than a threaded barrel.

To reply to the quote above, yes, that example was the extreme deviation, but it can and does happen.
From my experience(I don't see a lot of NEW Mags, mostly very well used ones!), there is a lot more movement with the twistlock barrel than a threadded one.
Put one in a vise - not too tight so as to squeeze the body and artificially tighten up the fit - and put a dial indicator on the end of the barrel (at a predetermined distance to make all things as equal as possible) and wiggle it back and forth.
There is quite a lot of movement when you do this.
The dial actually goes all over the place.
The threadded barrel to body interface doesn't exhibit ANYWHERE NEAR the same amount of deflection.
Now, we were also not wrenching on the barrel, just pushing it to the stops at the end of travel with GENTLE finger pressure.
We also tried to stay a equal distance from the breech.
On the Mag, we used the middle of the two o-rings for a starting or pivot point and went out 12 inches as a measureing point for the dial indicator. (using a 14" barrel)
On the threadded ones, we used the threads as the starting point (again with a 14" barrel).
We chose this length because we could use 12 inches or one foot to ease calculations.....calcualtions, we donn neeed no stinkin' calculations - LOL!!

I have also read on here somewhere that there was enough movement in a barrel that when the person using a Level 10 bolt was laying their barrel up against a bunker and shooting, it would not have enough initial movement past the bleeder hole to fire the marker as the bolt was hitting the barrel on the inside.
If it moves enough to not fire, that is way too much movement.
One other thing to consider with these markers (The ones I was checking): There is no telling how old they were, how much they were abused and how tight the barrel to body fit really was, BUT YOU HAVE TO CONSIDER THAT ALSO!

And yeah, that RaceGun Cocker video is impressive!

[Butterfingers]

Yes, my barrel has moved to the point when heavy pressure is applied the gun won't fire with a level 10. I actually whooped out the file and tapered the inside of my barrel :)

Im testing the barrel wiggle bolt catch consistency theory right now and it seems to be working out. Seemingly some barrels are undersized for mag bolts and catch the bolt on the forward motion. With the stock bolt and an unmodified barrel I was getting readings +/- 30 fps or more. This was unacceptable. When I changed to my shaved down and more lubricous delrin superbolt 1, the consistnecy tightened up to +/-5

Then I recently noticed when I got the level 10 that sometimes the gun dosent fire at all. After the taper and polish job... Now it fires all the time, and more consistently too 245, 244, 244, 245 last time I was out.

Hmm there may be a factor more than wiggle in a twist lock system that effects accuracy...