Intimidator Cycle Speed (VIDEO)

[Butterfingers]

Well if I were going to prove anything again, it wouldn't be with my gun my e-magnum is being sold.

Perhaps I can coax Don to do it.

As for WAS im not doubting anything at this point. Until there is sufficent evidence to prove otherwise.

[i-luv-my-rt]

rudy- i'm not sure what you meant by turning up the output pressure to 800, b/c if you turn the pressure up going into the gun above say 500 you will blow the soloniod. I think you meant turn your tank up to back it up with enough air but when you do that you depend on the secondary reg to keep up with 32cps. You would have to have a good combo to get it to cycle that fast with no/low shootdown.


I think it is cool when people test the limits of markers these days. We all know WAS has been a jerk about stuff in the past but now he has backed it up with this video. I dont care what he said in the past but now he has shown a Timmy shooting 32cps. These days i would say timmies are one of the top markers in the tournament seen. Were starting to see less angels and cockers and more Matrix's and Timmies.

I dont care about who's gun is faster and blah blah but it is cool to watch these videos and see whats going on with these new guns.

Mad props to WAS from me!!!

[Thordic]

Honestly, WAS's reputation or no reputation, I don't quite understand the problem here.

Is anyone doubting a standard stacked tube blowback marker can pull off 30 cps? Pi managed to do it with an old spyder clone, why couldn't an Intimidator, which is a "big boy" spyder, essentially, do it too?

I find it kinda sad that when Butters posts his 30cps video, everyone drools and goes "OMG thats great!" but the second ANOTHER gun is shown going that fast everyone starts yelling "Fake!" "It cant be real" and all these other negative comments.

[wyn1370]

Second to thordic
Even if it wasn't WAS making the video, you guys would all still piss in their cheerios. But I bet as soon as butter gets a 35bps, everyone will be bowing down to the greatness of the mag.
For the record I'm still more impressed with my GZ then my CNC extreme. My GZ worked straight out of the box. My extreme didn't. It had a bad bolt, the ace doesn't work like it should and it cost $500 more.

[FrAuStY]

I don't have sound at work..so can't really be "sure" of what I watched, however I will say this. Thord, Wyn, I know you guys have been on here a while..and yes I agree..sometimes we choose to support the mag before all else. BUT, the videos we "drooled" over were valid proof. Butterfingers had a watch in PLAIN VIEW easily read when the video was being shot.

This guy has two watches...which as far as I'm concerned, may as well not even been in the video. What good is a time guage if you can't freaking read it. Not only one... BUT TWO! He tried to validate his claims using two, but neglected to get them in a legible place. Not saying he sped the video up because it doesn't seem to skip or anything, but why go overboard with two different watches. It's like he's saying "I wouldn't lie to you..see I used TWO watches."

I'm still not impressed as I've had my spyder cycle failry quickly when I removed the sear and just pull ed the hamer back and let it fly. May not have been 32 bps...but it was pretty freaking quick. Does that mean we should bow down to my spyder and give it praise for being a fast marker? Nope. I want to see the gun fire that fast... hell break 25 BPS that butters did WITH PAINT! Then..I'll be impressed..until then.. it's just another person getting their gun to CYCLE at high rates..not deliver paint at that speed.

You say...in the real world no one will fire that fast and it's not allowed in tournies. Who's to say five years from now.. NPPL won't raise their standards up to like 20 bps? By then hopefully the paint will be made better...be easier to break, thus less painful and would cause less bodily damage (bruising etc). Then a higher rof won't be so bad. So sure..."right now" it's not worth attaining that ROF but in a few years it may be.

We know the Emag will SHOOT PAINT at 25 bps, it will probably shoot at 30 if we had a loader to feed it. And it will shoot consistently at that rate. Will the GZ timmy? I don't know... why? Cuz this guy doesn't provide CLEAN LEGIBLE PROOF that it will. I'm gonna go home tonight and bring up wave table and wave studio. I'll find the video of the Emag cycling 30 bps and I'll disect this video of WAS GZ timmy. I may even go so far as to ghost the two wave forms together one in red...one in Blue. Then we'll see how consistent the pressure is... and the ROF. I'm not bashing anyone's opinion... just throwing mine into the pot.

BTW -

Originally posted by Load SM5
Turborev- THE SMARTEST GOSHDARNED LOADER IN THE WHOLE WORLD!!!!!!

ROFLOL! Thats hilarious... him and his Artificially intelligent loader board. Thats funny cuz I'm sure my microwave has faster processors in it...but it won't answer a single question I ask it. Hmmmm mabe I'm the dumb one..

[kutter]

Kudos to Frausty, I do not need to post anything more as he read my mind concerning the 'cycle vs. shoot' comparison.

Of course I am not nearly smart enough to figure out what the heck he is talking about that whole, 'ghosting on a wave table' thingie.

[Thordic]

Frausty, taking out the sear isn't "cycling"

A cycle involves a normal gun cycle, which has to involve all parts of the gun that are supposed to be involved in a normal cycle.


And people drooled over the mag videos without watches in them too.

[manike]

Thordic, because of the way the mag works it's very difficult to 'cheat' a full cycle and have the gun firing without it completing a perfect cycle each time. So if you hear a shot, it's almost certain the gun is completing a full cycle. The bolt has to latch on the sear for it open the on/off fully and release a charge of air. So for each shot you know the bolt latched properly. There is no such thing as a 'death' fart with a mag :)

With a blowback or a ram operated gun it is actually quite easy for the gun to make the sound of a shot without it completing a full cycle. It's quite easy to make a gun sound like it is cycling properly even when it is not, hence the death fart when low on gas in blowbacks etc. It sounds like rapid firing but the gun is not actually latching the hammer back and thus not completing a full shot.

With a ram operated gun you can achieve the same thing by sending the ram forward before it is fully returned. You still get a hit on the valve and a blast of air, but you never complete a full cycle. I've known of this actually happening with some prototype eyeboards where the gun registered the bolt as a ball in place and thus fired again and again without the bolt ever opening fully... It was a bug that led to a very convincingly high rof for those that didn't realise what was happening, but where the bolt was never completing a full cycle.

It is an impressive video. It's not conclusive, and I wonder why it isn't at 35cps... but it's still cool to watch.

manike

[Thordic]

Simon-

I'm aware of that, and I agree. But anyone who really wanted to find issues with a mag could say they sped up the video, etc etc.

In any case, I don't see any reason why an Intimidator wouldn't be capable of firing at 30+ CPS (with full cycles).

I also understand it would be much easier to fake this.

Unfortunately, my intimidator is limited to 14 BPS on full auto, or else I'd be perfectly willing to test it.

If anyone wants to buy a morlock board for me, program it, and ship it to me, I'll be more than happy to test whatever amount of CPS you want :)

[rudy]

i-luv-my-rt if you read my post you you will see I said

incosistent cause they may have had to put a big difference in input pressure vs output pressure through it

when i say a big difference between input vs out put i mean input=tank output pressure and output is the guns operating pressure or what the ongun reg is set too.

meaning yes i am talking about the tank out put pressure. And yes it does effect how fast the reg can recharge quite a bit. 800 psi gas has more pressure so it can move in and fill the gun to 150 psi or whatever the gun uses then say 300 psi. also it has more molecules per volume so it can get by the small passages of the valve and fill the gun to its operating pressure faster. unfortunately it is usually less consistent to run a huge difference like that. but you can bet many people do it cause many dont have adjutable tanks.

also i would like to point out that running 500 psi into the intimidator should not blow a solenoid if i understand the gun correctly because the only air going to the solenoid is regulated by the lpr which is set too 100 or 50 or whatever

[Thordic]

I sent a PM to Vern from Petty about this thread, maybe he'll come over and have some insight :)

[i-luv-my-rt]

Rudy- that was my bad I didnt totally get what you were saying.


I'm not sure of how the LPR and soloniod are set-up on a timmy so i'm not gonna make assumptions or whatever.

I agree with Thordic. Also i think it is very stupid that we are arguing over stuff like this. If people want to talk let them talk, theres no reason to pay attention to them it only gets you mad.

[gatorchris]

If you run much more than 100 PSI past the LPR you risk blowing the noid, 120 is for sure going to nuke it, so I dont see how over-pressure is going to help this situation. I have to say Im kind of annoyed with a lot of the Timmy bashing Ive seen in this thread. I came over from PBNation during the "WAS trials" and read a lot about how AO was above all that, but it seems your laundry is just as dirty as everyone elses. Why is it so unbelievable that the timmy can do 32 cps consitently? What in your technical knowledge says it cant? Thats why I respected this board for the most part, everyone took a technical approach, if they lacked the information to formulate a knowledgeable opinion they usually didnt say anything negative or positive. Some of you are letting the WAS thing roll over into hate on the timmy, and thats wrong. Now on to some info I can relate to this thread.

The input pressure into a timmy (inline reg if you have one) will usually not exceed 300 psi. This pressure fills the LPR and also provides direct pressure to the bolt to fire the ball. Thus adjusting this pressure up or down will affect the chrono and can increase the available pressure to the LPR. If there was a cheat this would be the only place to do it. Simple test would be to make the vid show a chrono of a few balls before opening it up full auto. The LPR accepts the inline pressure and provides pressure to the noid which moves the ram back and forth. Pressure usually runs in the 75-90 psi range, with drilled barbs people are reporting 60-75 psi range. The stack tube design has the bolt pinned directly to the ram, which gives you your cycle speed. As said before, upping the pressure to the ram over 100 puts you in the nuke range, so I doubt he did this. He has also reported that upping the pressure to the noid actually decreases cycle speed, something to do with O ring friction because of the increased pressure, dunno exactly, its counterintuitive to say the least. Another simple "fix" for this vid would be to show a close up of the LPR pressure so we can see what its running. Also would be handy for him to put a gauge on the torpedo reg to see what its running as well.

On a side note, please stop with the timmy/spider crap, its silly and off base. If your comments can only bash the marker why bother posting it?

[RobAGD]

Ok first off you could run 1200 psi into the intimidator ( provided teh gun itself wouldnt cave under that pressure ) and not blow up the solenoid, you know why ? Becuase the noid only has the LPR suppling it with air. It a differnt circuit so no mater the input the noid ( witha good reg ) is still in its happy place of 85-95psi. Now jacking the pressure up that high might cause other problems such as the ram not being able to smack the valve hard enough to fully open it or with that much pressure it might not even budge. Thats when you start playing with springs and what not.

Yes she was refering to supplying the velocity reg with a high pressure to help keep the shoot down at bay.

-Robert

Originally posted by i-luv-my-rt
rudy- i'm not sure what you meant by turning up the output pressure to 800, b/c if you turn the pressure up going into the gun above say 500 you will blow the soloniod. I think you meant turn your tank up to back it up with enough air but when you do that you depend on the secondary reg to keep up with 32cps. You would have to have a good combo to get it to cycle that fast with no/low shootdown.

[rudy]

gatorchris with out rereading the post i dont remember anyone talking about overpressurizing the lpr whats your deal with that? Every one knows about was claim of faster cycle with lower pressure out of the lpr which probably is the result of a inferior soleniod