2003: year of the mag

[pito189]

Originally posted by Jack & Coke
"Year of the Mag?"

/me wishes

How many batches of XMAGS to you realistically think will be available to the general paintball venders (i.e. no waiting lists) next year?

I fear AGD will miss the boat again this year not because of quality, but quantity (lack of).

If AGD doesn't get their act together soon, 2003 will be the year of guns like the Timmy and the E-Cockers... at least in all of the magazines and on the tournament fields.

Believe me - I WANT AN XMAG! and always pull for AGD's success, but I'm just thinking realistically...

Respectfully and realistically,
J&C

Hear hear, someone that finally thinks like me.

I keep thinking to myself though what could possibly be taking so long. I think maybe when they are released. They will all have LX, ACE, Vert and Warp breech, On/off switch, and DARE I say it A MILLED BATTERY PACK.

Another Idea. I remember TK saying something about an AGD two piece barrel. Maybe they are waiting for those to get finished to include them on the X-Mags.

All just wild speculation ofcourse, but nonetheless something to chew on.

[einhander619]

I dunno, man, I think 2k3 might be the year of the 2k3 bushie. For it to be the year of the xmag there actually need to be xmags out there. A shocktech mag would be cool, tom should send slug bodies as christmas presents to shocktech, freeflow, and macdev!

[Jack & Coke]

Originally posted by einhander619
...For it to be the year of the xmag there actually need to be xmags out there...

einhander619 is correct.

[The Frymarker]

I hope it reigns true for AGD and Tom. They have placed a lot of effort into making mags a product for every paintballer, from listening to the customers to making them cosmetically attractive.


I hope 2003 is the year of the mag.

[Vendetta]

the calender goes like this... mags were 94-96. cockers 97-99 angels 2000-2002. so whats next? timmies, imps, maticeis, ect?

I guess we threw paint at each other in 93

[OldSchoolMag]

I thought Tom said the Xmags would be out at Skyball, and by that, in general sale, not this presale - product delivery 6 months later stuff!

I mean, I want an Xmag in the worst way, but if I'm gonna have to sit around and twiddle my thumbs to wait for one (I mean, waiting till March is bad enough already, but waiting till March to ORDER it!?) I'd much rather go and shell out for a nice Timmy or Angel. I mean, the Xmags are going to be pushing $1300 for colors anyways, so I don't feel that many people will be willing to follow the Xmag when it is fairly expensive and rare to boot.

OSM

[Jack & Coke]

$10 bucks says six months from now, XMAGS will still be unavailable to the general masses... That means any Joe Shmoe can order one from an online store like 888, etc.

Any takers? :)

Not only that, but I fear Mags will still be little drops of water in a sea of Timmys, E-cockers, cockers, Impy's, Angels, Matrices, Bushy's...

"2003: year of the mag" ???

Only in my dreams...

[aaron_mag]

Originally posted by bunkerhugger


I'd have to fight you for that distinction. I've been using a mag since I convinced AGD to send me two way back when - numbers 386 and 399, and I can still tell you where those two are and how often they get used. I regularly go out and let other people use my Xmag, and I carry enough mag parts to build another gun, just in case I see another mag user I can help. From recball to tournaments you'd be hard pressed to find a with a bad word to say about me or my gear. When it comes to Arizona Mag supporters, I rule.

No need to fight why don't you just move to Oregon! We are more than willing to take mag users up here....especially ones that regularly lend out their X-mag and carry around spare parts

Everyone seems really bitter at the slow manufacture of the X mags. I don't know anything about marker manufacturing but most manufacturing takes a long time on the front end (setting up the process). Once that is all worked out they probably will be hitting the market pretty fast.

[einhander619]

yo aaron_mag, how old are you? I notice there's a lot of portlanders on AO. Do you guys ever hook up and play? But anyways, like everyone's saying, I'm not complaining about the delay because, frankly, 1300 is too much to pay for a paintgun.

[QUINCYMASSGUY]

Making Airgun Designs King Again

My thoughts of AGD's chances of becoming king in 2003:

Strengths: AGD's devotion to customer service has kept customers loyal to them even though Spyders and Custom 98's have seized the mainstream market from them. I think the majority of AGD's business is repeat business from the kinds of customers that frequent this site. They are also innovative and continue to produce revolutionary creations like the Level 10 which can solve one of the most noted flaws in previous markers. I know a dealer or two who are looking at Mags again solely because of the Level 10 being available and hopefully becoming a standard.

Weaknesses: The designs of all markers besides the Xmag is outdated. I like my Minimag and I'm sure all of you love your AGD markers, but in all honesty the reason Kingman and Tippman have done well recently is because they sell flashy markers that can be bought with electronic triggers included for way less than it would cost any of us to get an electronic trigger or an anodized finish for the guns we already bought. I know they're lower quality, but the average new recballer is the majority of business and not appealing to it is what cause Mags to lose footing. Most rookies want to spend little now but later spend more. Getting this entry-level market early is essential in business and a more affordable Mag with less features may help. Getting these customers will help AGD grow and produce more innovative products for us regular customers, and almost no rookie is going to buy an older Mag because of price, looks, and prior reputation. The older 1/4 turn barrels are unpopular too, confirmed by AGD's sudden switch to Autococker threads for the Xmag, and the market will always dictate the production of new products. Sad but true. AGD's rate of production is also an issue. If one Mag is on the shelf while Kingman was able to produce five, a smart customer will buy the Mag but then Kingman will acquire FIVE new uninformed rookies at the same time. Those five will probably keep their business with Kingman for years and become more loyal to Kingman as they become experienced players, it's basically the physics of business.

Opportunities: The Level 10 is AGD's opportunity to grab a majority of the market back in 2003 and is basically their flagship product for this. The XMag satisfies high-end customers, but to capture the lower and middle end customers either new affordable markers must be produced OR AGD must make a solid effort to revitalize older markers. The majority of business is NOT high-end, and ignoring it during AGD's revolution is a mistake. If an old Level 6 Automag can be made flashy looking and effective for the same as an Electronic Spyder, AGD will crush Kingman's market and take it back. Remember, the average customer listens to the dealer and ads, so work with the dealers to provide service through them instead of having to send it back each time. Working with dealers more closely and making your services available through them instead of sapping your somewhat limited resources would help you out and also increase dealers' desire to carry your products. Your simple design appeals to the less experienced customer, esp. in regards to maintenance, so you can grab this market easily. Price will still be a factor though, Tippman's and Kingman's prices are VERY appealing to them.

Threats: To wrap up this commentary that I am aware is become rather lengthy but hopefully informative to AGD and customers, the biggest threats I see are mass-production companies such as Kingman and Brass Eagle keeping their market segment with low costs and flashy design, but also 2003 being a year where fully electronic markers become standard. I looked into making my Level 10 Minimag fully electronic, and when I did the math it would cost almost $500 extra. With the basic Diablo Matrix, the older Impulses as well as the new ones being released in 2003, and other reasonably priced electronics being available, AGD might be left behind. To most people playing $700+ for a gun alone is alot of money and the economy is not exactly getting stronger. An affordably priced electronic trigger from AGD that becomes part of a $400-500 marker would help avoid this and easily compete with the Impulses. But leaving the option of electronic Markers to pros and others with tons of disposable income (or rich daddies) is a mistake. Someone playing for 1-2 years will most likely go with another company instead.

I definitely have other thoughts but these are the key ones. I am all for AGD becoming king again, I always stick up for them on the field and with my friends. I admit the Impulse is a marker I have been looking at very closely, but AGD's reputation for quality and customer service has kept me with them. Our business alone will not make them king however. We need new blood, and getting AGD markers into the rookies and recballers hands is the first step. It's all a matter of how to make them choose AGD that is the issue. Capturing this market segment will let AGD expand and more effectively reach other segments as well, including the dedicated customers. And I know they can do this without sacrificing their quality or dedication to the game.

[FooTemps]

I don't think the Mag will make a comeback this soon. It's kidna funky retro at the moment at best. It's not old, but it's retro(like the valve! hahaha). The lx and x-valves and sluggos will be sure to bring some spark back to the mag but I think that AGD should sell sluggomags premilled once they get the chance... It'll be costly but good chances more people will be attracted to them.

[confedman75]

i think the Xmag will die. by the time AGD gets all the pre orders filled, BKO, WORR, WDP, BOB LONG, ect. will all have competing markers out there and will be, accually get this NOT ON BACK ORDER because they get theirs out faster. then every one will want the gun they CAN get and will probably be better, by then.

[AGD]

Lots of interesting commentary both pro and con. I think all are making good points.

If two years ago you predicted where Angels would be in the market now, most people would have guessed wrong. The one thing about paintball is that its unpredicatble. Was anyone betting money that the Intimidator was going to be the next hot thing after is lanuished on the market for years? Most people forget that BRASS EAGLE owned the distribution rights to Angles when they first appeared in this country. They dropped them because they figured it was too expensive and no one showed much interest. The hottest high end gun on the planet is MECHANICAL, now who would have figured that.....

Guess all you want, it's going to be an interesting year.

AGD

[AutomagRT1483]

2003, year of the Mag! WoooHooo!!!!

[kman]

Well I think Tom is a very smart person with phenominal products. Not only did the X-Mag bring the gun up to snuff with all the other flashy guns out there, but it did it better (lvl10) and more reliable. My vote is and will always be for the X-Mag. Heck, any lvl10 mag as far as that goes.
All I can say is thank you Tom and keep up the awesome work.