Why do people shoot so much paint?

[banzaimf]

Look at it from a military standpoint. Why does the army have machine guns when everyone could have a sniper rifle cause after all "one shot, one kill". It's not just about accuracy by volume, it's also a matter of keeping the other guys head down. If a back player doesn't keep hammering the field, the other guys can move with impunity. The short distances from bunker to bunker combined with the distance that the paintball travels makes it a little tough.

A 90 MPH fastball from the pitchers mound to home plate takes .45 second. This is with the luxury of being able to see the pitcher start his windup.

A player dashing at 10 MPH for his next bunker where you have a 10 foot window to hit him can cover that distance in .68 of a second. Subtract the time that it takes a paintball at 300 fps to travel 50 feet (just as an example) and you now have a .52 of a second window to adjust your aim and fire your one shot.

I guess I would just like to point out that what you may consider as "spray and pray" is a tool used to keep your team moving and their team in their bunkers.

[JEDI]

Banzaimf, Thats exaclty what I've been waiting to hear. I dont think people understand the game, when I hear them question the amount of paint shot. Sure, we could change it to limited amounts of paint. We could also say you can only run so fast, and have to wear camo, and the games will now be 20 minutes long. Its called wood ball.

Speedball is a game. Every aspect of it contributes to what makes it speed ball. You wouldn't tell a Quarter Back, he can only pass a certain amount of times in a game because it would be fun.

[A.T.S]

I guess what I am trying to say is, there should be tournaments played in different classifications based on paint restrictions. It would be Like engine displacements in road racing.

[JEDI]

That makes sense, I can agree with that idea.

[shartley]

[temps]

Originally posted by beam
Actually, I WANT the tourney players to shoot a lot of paint. High demand for paint = increased supply = lower cost.

Or, High demand , limited supply = higher cost


Unless the demand for paint falls the price will never go down. (exeptions of large companys lowering price to increase compitition in the market place) other then that I don't see the price of paint falling any time soon.

Only way I can get cheap paint is to buy in bulk with a bunch of friends.

Is there a way to make your own paint?

[banzaimf]

Originally posted by shartley

Because people would get into bad situations and lay on the trigger clip after clip until they burned up the barrel.

I was trying to use a simple analogy.

I am not sure when this became an F/A issue. This is an issue of players dumping paint down the field as a deterrent to the other team running on your guys, and I will agree that bps is really not that important in this job. What it creates however, is a sense that players "spray and pray" when they are merely doing a calculated action to keep your team from being eliminated.

Many of the arguments brought up in this thread look good at face value, but fall pretty flat on the playing field. Can you imagine a field full of noobs all using FA markers? I think most of the arguments shown here would be proven moot.

From what I have seen while reffing, no body would move. Except for the oddball psycho....

Once again, I am lost as to where this became an F/A issue.

[SlartyBartFast]

Originally posted by banzaimf
Look at it from a military standpoint. Why does the army have machine guns when everyone could have a sniper rifle cause after all "one shot, one kill".

Cute analogy, but wrong on several counts. Most military automatic hand weapons are limited to 3 round bursts. Elite handgun/semi auto training is 3-round burst. And not to preserve the barrel but to conserve amunition. Few military weapons shoot at the rate of fire paintball markers can. Few wepons in the military carry thousands of rounds into battle. Very importantly: Paintball is not the military so all comparisons between the two are usually pretty stupid. When was the last time a soldier survived a 200 pound per minute assault hiding behind an inflatable? Brick walls have difficulty with that sort of barrage.

I won't diss anyone who enjoys throwing as much paint as humanly possible. It's just a game I refuse to play. I had a 300 rpm finger when I played too many video games in mis-spent youth. In a live game, I consider out flanking, out maneuvering, and team comunication to be much better skills. And, IMO, these are skills that should trump tightly focused paint sprayers.

I will however argue that while filling the path may be legitimate strategy, not firing and coaxing out the enemy into your firing path could be ultimately more advantageous. But of course that would require shooting skill where dumping paint is hoping for luck or the pure stupidity of your opponent stepping out into a stream of paint. The difference between "I think you'll go there.' and 'I don't want you to go there' . IMO

Originally posted by JEDI
I dont think people understand the game, when I hear them question the amount of paint shot.

We all understand the tournament speedball game. We just don't necessarily like it that's all.

Sure, we could change it to limited amounts of paint. We could also say you can only run so fast, and have to wear camo, and the games will now be 20 minutes long. Its called wood ball.

Nobody is proposing that. Speedball vs Woodsball is not the only option. Why does Speedball have to be Unlimited Paint speedball? Restrictions on ROF, equipment, amount of paint are interesting no matter the game because it levels the playing field.

Speedball is a game. Every aspect of it contributes to what makes it speed ball.

No, Open Class Unlimited Paint Speedball is a game. And it's a game that not all players have an interest in playing (or even watching).

You wouldn't tell a Quarter Back, he can only pass a certain amount of times in a game because it would be fun.

Actually we do tell a quarterback how many times they can throw in a game. Once per down that their team is in possesion of the ball if I remember correctly. Could say: "We don't let the quarterback throw as many times as they want until a teammate makes a good catch".

Shartley: Think you posted in the wrong thread dude. Even the sprayers in this one aren't advocating FA in Speedball. But I do agree with everything you said none-the-less. 3 BPS vs 30 BPS is IMO only a physcological battle against the opponent and a crutch by the user that could only be hurting his pocket book.

[Tyger]

Originally posted by JEDI
In my opinion, you guys got it all wrong. It's not spray and pray, OR accuracy by volume. It's called filling the lane. Not hitting some one can be just as important as hitting them some times. If I fill a lane with 200 balls, and you run into it, that's not luck, I anticipated your move, and you fell for it.
...
I guess you can disagree, but then I would question whether or not you really know speedball.--Oh, and limited round or one hopper games are just rediculous. Speedball has one goal, and thats elimination. Paint is not a concern.

Let me ask you something, in all seriousness.

If a golfer could take as many whacks at the ball as they wanted, and only count the ones they liked, would that make a good game? How about a football kicker getting as many shots at that 45 yard field goal as they want? Hey, while we're at it, baseball hitters get as many swings as they want in order to score that 'dinger'?

Not much of a sport then, is it?

You can sweet-spot with 30 balls just as easily as you can wih 200. You can do wiht 5 what the neophite does with 500. If a golfer had as many "Mulligans" as they wanted in the PGA, you'd have a lame game. Paintball is one of the only sports that, well, you can buy another 'do-over'.

One of the things that seperate real athletes from weekend hacks is their ability to perform within constraints. In baseball, it's 3 strikes. Golf, it's a stroke count and no handicap. Football, it's 60 minutes and 4 downs at a time. Paintball has no constraints. And, since paintball won't constrain the technology, you have to constrain the paint to show that you have an ability that not everyone else has.

Keep in mind that I can call myslef a paintball professional player with $2500 and 9 other guys who are willing to play in it. Without constraints, wihtout some kind of a way to show real skill, we're spinning our wheels.

-Tyger

[Ultimator]

Originally posted in Tyger's sig
Please forgive any typos in my posts. I type like a paintball player. I go for speed, not accuracy.

Hahaha! Wow. The word hypocrite comes to mind.

Originally posted by SlartyBartFast... 3 BPS vs 30 BPS is IMO only a physcological battle against the opponent ...

All in all, I really think that paint spraying is somewhat of a strategy. I play mid on a tournament team, I know that if a guy is about to run up and bunker my front guy, I have to shoot a line of paint in front him. There can't be any breaks in that stream or he can get by. So what if I used about 20 balls? I got the guy out and that front guy of yours in their 40 stays in the game.

Most players on a pro level don't pay for ANYTHING. So really all the argument vs. Pros in the World Cup wasting paint (and money) is pointless.

I play stock class once a month, I have a little Sheridan PGP. It's fun, but that's an entirely different game. If you like limited paint games, go for stock ot pump games that puts a lot of emphasis on the "One shot, one kill" aspect of the game.

[TheTramp]

Originally posted by Tyger

You can sweet-spot with 30 balls just as easily as you can wih 200. -Tyger

I'm not sure I agree with this. Every inch of space between each of my balls when shooting a lane on the break increases the chances for the oposing player to reach his bunker. Now, if I can completely fill the space the is basicly no chance for him to get through.

As far as keeping people down, I generaly only shoot 3 bps unless I see something to shoot at.

This is just as a back player. My front guys don't even always go through a full hopper.

[JEDI]

I never said a speed ball game couldn't be won without shooting a ton of paint.

We all understand the tournament speedball game. We just don't necessarily like it that's all.

That doesn't make any sense what so ever. If you dont like it than why do you concern yourself with the rules of it. Why should players that enjoy it have to abide by rules or the opinions of others that dont enjoy it.

Restrictions on ROF, equipment, amount of paint are interesting no matter the game because it levels the playing field.

How does that level the playing feild? Paintball is a sport where you're game is affected by the gear you own, plain and simple. My gun is different then your gun. I can afford more paint then you, (or vise versa). Whats next? Every one has to use the same gun because otherwise its unfair.

Paintball is different than any other sport. Shooting a couple hundred times isnt a second chance, Its part of the game. Why do you get 2 chances to serve the ball in tennis? Because its part of the game.

No, Open Class Unlimited Paint Speedball is a game. And it's a game that not all players have an interest in playing (or even watching).

I've been to several of the majors including world cup, and I've never seen any different class, limiting your paint. I'm not saying it doesnt exist, but its not main streem. If you like it, good. Play it, and stay out of the real speed ball games.

I'm sorry Shartley, you're wrong, I can elimnate a person hitting my bunker with a few balls. It does NOT keep my head down because it simply is not effective.

Many of the arguments brought up in this thread look good at face value, but fall pretty flat on the playing field. Can you imagine a field full of noobs all using FA markers? I think most of the arguments shown here would be proven moot.

Shartley, many times I've seen you attempt to disprove someones arguement by saying, "if you're gonna make an example, know what you're talking about." I mean no disrespect, and I'm not attacking you. Your post leads me to beleive you, in fact, have very little experience playing main stream tournament paintball. NO ONE brought up the full auto, and you sound rediculous arguing against it. Thats not the issue here.

I still think many of you are missing the point. Speedball is not football or baseball. Rules of every one using the same bat or same ball do not apply. I have thousands of dollars in equipment. Major tournaments can cost a team hundreds of dollars. If you dont feel your equipment or budget is up to par, dont come out. Its not a matter of fair, or over shooting. Its part of the game. If you dont like it, play on Shartley's private feild Stay away from Sky Ball or World Cup, because its not for you.

[Miscue]

Word.

[Scooter/Cootie]

Originally posted by Brak
...it wont let poeople continuosly shoot at your bunker while another one goes and bunkers you while you are crapping your pants.

This is exactly what's supposed to happen in an organized game of tourny ball.

As a back player on AGD Pride, it's my job (among a lot of other things) to

1. Keep you from shooting at my front players.
2. Keep you in your bunkers so my front players can move up the field to get a better angle on you.
3. Keep you from looking down the field so that my front players can bunker you without you expecting anything.


Please note that I keep referencing to my front players. It's their job to get the eliminations, get the flag pull, and get the hang to win the game for us. They cannot do this effectively if they have to worry about several guns on the other team posted on them at all times. That's where I step in.

It's a team effort out there on the field and the back players responsibility is to provide support to the front players so they can do their jobs. And that support, in a tourny game, requires quite a few paintballs to fly through the air.

The more players on the field, ie. 10 man, the more bunkers and area a back player needs to pay attention to so that his front players can effectively do their jobs. Hence the large amount of paint that they have to carry and shoot.

Granted some teams can get the same job done with less paint (BAM is a great example) but the fundementals are still the same. A back player has to make sure that you stay put in your bunker, not shooting, inorder for his front players to have the best chance to eliminate you.

[JEDI]

See that? A smart man, and a Tourney player. Shooting lots of paint is some times part of the game.