Paintball prank spurs crusade

[shartley]

Re: Re: Because...

Originally posted by theraidenproject

I'm just thinking out loud here, I'm sure you've thought about most of the ideas I could come up with about this. If you're 15-17, though, (depending on the state) and have a license/permit, you have the privledge to drive yourself to a paintball store, but not the privledge to buy a new marker or a case of paint without a parent there? That is absurd. I would add more, and back this up better, but it's 1:47am, and I"m falling asleep.

[raehl]

Hey believe me...

No one is more sensitive to the plight of sub-18 year olds who want to play paintball than I am. I'm only 24 myself, and when I was in high school I organized 70+ person recreational outings where the biggest hassle was making sure everyone got their underage consent forms signed and notarized. Yes, that's right, most places if you're under 18 and want to play paintball you need to either have your parent present, or drag your parent and the waiver to a notary public to have signed.

I'm also the President of the NCPA, and one of our main goals is to get more kids playing paintball. We even set up a whole high school league this year and do lots of work to help people get clubs started. I want nothing less than lots and lots of kids playing paintball.

But while I realize that kids think they're responsible adults, the fact of the matter is many of them are not. If I want to be able to have a fairly easy time getting kids to be able to have paintball clubs in their high school, the people who get to decide whether that club is allowed to exist or not have to think it's a good idea. If their experience with paintball is a bunch of the bad apples running around town misusing their equipment, then all of the good paintball players will not get their paintball club. Yes, it sucks that the people who do things right have to be inconvenienced, but requiring parents to be involved in a purchase forces at least a minimum level of parental involvement in what their kids are doing - or more likely, will discourage the bad apples from even trying ot buy the equipment in the first place.

Supervision WILL reduce misuse of paintball equipment, and reduction in misuse benefits everyone, especially those under 18 who are inconvenienced slightly by having to involve parents in their purchases (just like you have to involve them if you want to play at a commercial field or in a tournament.) You may only see that having to have your parent buy the marker for you is an annoyance, but that's not my concern - my concern is that if I don't annoy you, you won't be able to even possess, let alone buy, a marker at all. If we don't accept laws that require you to be 18 to purchase paintball equipment, we'll get laws that require you to be 18 to even HAVE paintball equipment.

The choice is not "Be able to buy paintball stuff, or have to have parents buy paintball stuff", the choice is "Have parents able to buy paintball stuff, or not be allowed to have paintball stuff at all."


- Chris

[theraidenproject]

Re: Re: Re: Because...

Sharley and Raehl, you both make good points. I do think that something should be done to combat the rampant spread of stupidity on the part of many in the sport. I grudgingly admit that an under 18 ban, while inconvenient to me and my friends, would proabably serve the community better in the long run, as anyone genuinely into the sport would go through the hoops of getting paint and markers. Oh well, I guess I'll just grow a beard so I won't get carded. (Just for paintball stores, that is)

edit - I am stil asking the question, how will this affect the second-hand market? Will I be able to personally buy or sell a marker? Or will I have to jump through legal hoops?

(and sorry for using the "jump through hoops" thing twice in one post :))

[raehl]

It depends.

Ideally, this would be implemented by all of the paintball distributors adopting a policy to not sell to stores that sell to those under 18.

If it has to be implemented with legislation, ideally (and likely) that legislation would only target retail locations, and the second-hand market would remain unaffected. If it were to be affected, it would most likely be through some clause that regulates the transfer of a paintball marker to a minor through some general means other than sale. That seems a rather silly, ineffective, and excessively annoying, way of going about things.

- Chris

[�.C.]

whoever thinks it should be classified as a firearm shold be beaten by a stick, makes me so angry that stupid people that don't know the 1st few things about paintball guns tell us where to catagorize our guns. STUPID SH*T, this is the 1st time I've ever been mad in a post, I want ot beat them personnally. And if I knew I were gonna die in a week, I'd seriously come after them and KILL THEM. BB guns are much more dangerous but they aren't firearms.

[shartley]

whoever thinks it should be classified as a firearm shold be beaten by a stick, makes me so angry that stupid people that don't know the 1st few things about paintball guns tell us where to catagorize our guns. STUPID SH*T, this is the 1st time I've ever been mad in a post, I want ot beat them personnally. And if I knew I were gonna die in a week, I'd seriously come after them and KILL THEM. BB guns are much more dangerous but they aren't firearms.

[Evil Bob]

California recently passed a new law with regards to victims of violent crimes, they can now sue the manufacturers of any guns used in said violent crime. The law is broad enough that if a BB or paintball gun was used in a crime in which someone got hurt, the victim could legally sue the manufacturer.

This law is so stupid and far reaching that Smith and Wesson is considering closing up shop and shutting down completely instead of continuing to operate under such conditions. Essentially the anti gun crowd will win if they can force the firearms manufacturers to shut down with threat of continued and repetitive litigation.

Unfortunately for you and me, these same anti gun nuts also want to ban paintball for being a "pro war game" that teaches young people violence and how to be marksmen for school shootings.

As much as I love California, its soon time to be moving out, the socialist party has taken over and all rational thought has gone out the window.

-Evil Bob

[�.C.]

BUT I WANNA BEAT THEM WITH A STICK

[QUINCYMASSGUY]

stick

Tell someone against paintball, especially it being played by youths, about your "beating with a stick" theory BC and they'll already have won their argunment without opening their mouths. The whole point is to get the idea of violence to not be associated with paintball, which is why incidents like the driveby paintballings and pranks such as the one discussed here are raising such furvor (anger, etc) on both sides. It makes legislators want to ban the game, it makes responsible players want to stop these jerks misusing their equipment so the game isn't banned.

The Smith and Wesson deal is weak because as long as the company is following all legislation and requirements they should not be responsible. A gun is a tool, unless it goes off by accident due to design malfunction it's the person holding it that is entirely to blame. Everybody needs scapegoats these days, it's lame.

Setting an 18+ to buy paintball equipment and making it illegal to sell even used paintball gear to someone under 18 is the first way to go. It helps decrease incidents of smoking as people selling tobacco don't want to risk the chance of large fines. The 18+ law would make the sport look good as safety legislation is being placed. It should be fine for someone to use their parent's equipment under parental supervision, but without these laws our sport risks troubles all created by the younger participants, and I got no problem putting all the penalties on them.

[1stdeadeye]

Haha

BUT I WANNA BEAT THEM WITH A STICK

ROFLOL!

[�.C.]

Tell someone against paintball, especially it being played by youths, about your "beating with a stick" theory BC and they'll already have won their argunment without opening their mouths. The whole point is to get the idea of violence to not be associated with paintball, which is why incidents like the driveby paintballings and pranks such as the one discussed here are raising such furvor (anger, etc) on both sides. It makes legislators want to ban the game, it makes responsible players want to stop these jerks misusing their equipment so the game isn't banned.

They wouldn't know that my attack would be paintball related, they'd just be a random guy attack someone with a stick.

[shartley]

They wouldn't know that my attack would be paintball related, they'd just be a random guy attack someone with a stick.

[cledford]

Originally posted by Evil Bob
California recently passed a new law with regards to victims of violent crimes, they can now sue the manufacturers of any guns used in said violent crime. The law is broad enough that if a BB or paintball gun was used in a crime in which someone got hurt, the victim could legally sue the manufacturer.

This law is so stupid and far reaching that Smith and Wesson is considering closing up shop and shutting down completely instead of continuing to operate under such conditions. Essentially the anti gun crowd will win if they can force the firearms manufacturers to shut down with threat of continued and repetitive litigation

Luckly, every single time someone has tried this the case has failed. I'm not sure about CA, but elsewhere several high profile lawsuits (some even backed by the Klinton regime) failed.

For the good of our society, I hope it satys that way - or where will it stop? You could sure the Beer manufacturer for the intoxicating product that caused someone to be drunk, the car manufacturer for producing a car that could be operated by someone intoxicated, and it could go on, and on and on...

-Calvin

[spacedtedybear]

In my opinion, if parents buy their paintball marker for their children who are under 18, they should be required to sign extra waver. In that waver should be a clause that holds the parents resposible for any sort of wreckless behavior by the children. The kids should be banned from all paintball fields in his/her state for whatever amount of time and be forced to attend safety classes and the like.

Frankly, CO2 and NO2 tanks should be locked away as if they were ammuntion for real firearms. If kids today are dumb enough to shoot other people in public, they're probably dumb enough to screw around with their tanks until 'BOOM!'.

[Ov3rmind]

I agree on the the idea that parents should be required to sign a form/waiver whenever a gun or paint is purchased by someone under 18. I'd be willing to go through some slight inconveniences myself to help the sport as a whole (only about two more years 'til I'm 18 anyway). Overall, I think we (under 18) should be allowed to own our own equiptment, just with several new laws implemented.

but without these laws our sport risks troubles all created by the younger participants, and I got no problem putting all the penalties on them.

You should have a problem putting the penalty on them. I know myself and many many other younger players are perfectly resposible to play this sport. Don't forget that without the sub-18 crowd, the paintball industry would go on a MASSIVE decline that would effect everyone.