Pre 2000 cockers = bad idea?

**Peach** · 02-23-2003, 08:38 PM

*Looks at his 3 Mags*
I have no clue... But my main suggestion is to post on a cocker forum that has people geared towards these sort of questions. I wouldn't trust us, AO, with answering important cocker questions :P

Just to fit in... I gotta say it, god help me!

Have you thought about an E-Mag?

Bah, internet peer pressure..

**BobTheCow** · 02-23-2003, 08:41 PM

lol i forget so easily how this is the "automag owners group." To an unbiased forum!!

**BobTheCow** · 02-23-2003, 08:46 PM

**OFFICIAL UPDATE**

What a surprise, the cocker owners group forum sucks. Oh well, I guess I'll ask anyway. And maybe pbnation...but still, I'd appreciate any info that any *cocker owners* could give me here.

**who_311** · 02-23-2003, 08:51 PM

NO My friend got a 98. It rips!

**BTAutoMag** · 02-23-2003, 08:54 PM

im getting a 99 cocker soon
what upgrades can i not get for it

**BobTheCow** · 02-23-2003, 08:56 PM

...98? tippy? what? OH 1998 model

BT - I dunno, this is all coming from somebody else...again, i am cocker unintelligent.

**halB** · 02-23-2003, 09:04 PM

dont get a 97, the 98 cocker was a huge change in cocker models with a lot of improvements, before that u got a lot of problems. a 97 is just one year too old for me to even consider getting.

**Angry Man** · 02-23-2003, 09:14 PM

Ah, so true. As much as you upgrade an old cocker it will always be an old cocker. 2002s are selling for REALLY cheap used (I'm expecting to get less than 200 for mine most likely, but hoping for more on ebay) and they are pretty good stock. Most of the stock components rival aftermarket stuff now in everything but looks.

Also, it CANNOT take new bolts and use old back blocks, since the length of the bolt is largely determined by what year backblock you use. "Keeping the gun up to date" isn't easy to do, too much milling needed both inside and out.

The rat valve isn't that much better than the stock 2002 valve, just way better than the 1997 one, the kapp cocking rod is identical to stock except in looks, and venturi bolts sell for 20 bucks and do nothing....unless the gun is under 100 dollars or comes with a full freak or something it's a gigantic rip off and I'd avoid it.

If you want a cocker, I'd pick up a new one with hinge for like 280 bucks, buy a spring kit and spend a long time tuning it (it's work but it's actually pretty fun). You can get it to pinch paint, be very efficient, have a nice short trigger, etc. with all stock parts, it just takes some work. To get similar performance out of a 97 you'd have to upgrade every part on it, and it would cost nearly 500 bucks. Avoid it.

**BobTheCow** · 02-23-2003, 09:17 PM

Forgot to mention this guy also has a Shocktech front end on it...does that change anything?

**Angry Man** · 02-23-2003, 09:25 PM

Shocktech front ends are nice but prone to leaks. I have a shocktech 3 way and pneumatics reg and both are nice, but the 3 way leaks a bit at low pressures.

The shocktech pneumatics kit is one of the top few on the market, in my opinion, especially in terms of looks. It's probably worth as much as the rest of the gun, but still doesn't justify a price much over 130 bucks. The 3 way is shorter, but that only matters with hinge triggers. The reg is adjustable, but the stock one is also adjustable, it's just a pain to adjust. The ram is a bit nicer than stock, but the stock ram is decent.

The shocktech front end kit is WAY better than the 97 pneumatics, though and will probably increase the performance of the gun. With those ugprades it should be decent, but try it first and do not spend too much. I've seen stock 2k2s and 2k1s under 200 and they are pretty nice considering the price.

Old cockers are also maintenance nightmares, so beware.

**BTAutoMag** · 02-23-2003, 09:37 PM

thats why im buying a cocker... my mag never breaks

**UThomas** · 02-23-2003, 10:46 PM

The two main things that are different aren't interchangable and relevant are:

-Back block and bolt. If you want to switch from pre 2000 to post 2000 or vice versa you have to change both at the same time.

-Front block. The 2000+ ones have a bigger air chamber (lower operating pressure) and higher flow bolt. Of course if you use a $20 low pressure chamber on a pre 2000 its a moot point.

I think the main thing you'll notice is that stock cockers come with a lot better stuff stock now. If you're going to modify them it might cost $30 to do the milling and $25 to enlarge the air chamber to make it match 2000 specs. Its not a big deal. It was the early 90's cockers that were unbearable (no adjustable reg, no nelson springs, no secondary reg, etc).

**-=Squid=-** · 02-23-2003, 10:55 PM

Re: Pre 2000 cockers = bad idea?

Originally posted by BobTheCow63
I have the chance to get a 97 cocker with rat valve, venturi bolt, kapp cocking rod, and some other stuff that I don't remember right now.

Now, I know NOTHING about cockers, and I have been told anonymously *cough* *cough* NICK *cough* that any cocker made before 2000 is not worth getting, because A) it doesn't accept post-1999 parts and B) it's ugly as poo.

Now I don't mind about the ugliness. Also, the guy said: "its a 97 cocker but i kept it up-to-date so it takes all new upgrades like bolts and erverything, besides back blocks."

What do you all think? Is it true that older cockers aren't worth it? If so, could this guy be for real saying he's got it rigged so I CAN get newer parts?

-Ryan

OK, he lied to you. If he cant upgrade backblocks, you cant use a new bolt because of the bolt size. You cant just get a 2000+ front block to fit on a pre 2k body, he is either bsing you or its a 2000+ cocker....some people really need to think on this stuff sometimes.

**nerobro** · 02-24-2003, 01:43 AM

Ask anyone who's seen my 95 mini on the field. Look, a cocker is a cocker. Nuff said. I don't care the age. The ONLY real difference is the backblock, frontblock screw, and valve chambe size.

The only difference when running an old un-drilled cocker (as in drilling out the valve chamber) is that you should run higher pressure. Though I will note that 314159 runs his 95 cocker at 220psi... and has a small valve chamber.

you will see NO preformance difference between a older and newer cocker. And with an older cocker you have more metal to mill if you decide to take your gun to the beauty pagent.

The gun IS good. The gun IS solid. the question is.. what's the price.

I'm going to assume it has a rock on there. the OLDER stock rams rock. Say.. the one before 99. I'm also assuming this gun has a new 3way on it.

The reputation that older cockers had.. with being unreliable was with the pre sledgehammer guns. they had a really really crappy adjustable regulator. That's why a rock was an important upgrade. 95 cockers came with the sledge. the reg on the front of todays cockers uses the same parts, and uses the same rebuild kit. It's a darned good reg.

People talk about parts compatability... Well the ONLY parts you can't swap are the front block (the peice of alumium, not the parts on it), new velocity adjusters (though the conversion is easy.. and unneeded) and the front block screw.

If you want to use 2k bolts. buy a 2k backblock. they will fit. Though most bolts are stil available as pre-2k length. Also.. keep in mind.. that the stock bolt is very good.

the list of parts you can still exchange: ram, 3way, regs, hammers, valves, backblocks, bolts, trigger frames, cocking rods, pump arms, barrels, all trigger compontents, valve retention screw, cocking rods, valve setscrew... Well EVERYTHING but that peice of metal between the front end bits and the body.

cockers haven't changed much :-)

now, you might want to check if your gun has had the timing hole drilled. I think those started in 99.

Pre 2000 cockers = bad idea?

Pre 2000 cockers = bad idea?

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