Pre 2000 cockers = bad idea?

[AzrealDarkmoonZ]

But the pressure is totally irrelavent to the springing issue. I can run a HP setup with light main spring and heavy valve spring and retain excellent efficiency, more so than a lower LP setup due to the decreased dwell time, in fact most cockers top out 400-500 psi in efficiency range with the main problem being the air inlet between the body, now with the Merlin and maybe a few other aftermarket bodies they enlarge the hole in the body to increase airflow and thus decrease the maximum efficiency pressure that the cocker runs at.

So in regards to LP decreases pull its not a truism, a 97 valve with a light mainspring and super heavy valve spring running at 600psi will have the same thearetical pull as a 2K cocker running tornado valve with a light main and heavy valve at 200psi.

Now low recocking pressure is based on the mainspring so low cocking pressure is a by product of the light mainspring and a few other factors but the mainspring being the most important, ie you could add lighter polycarbonate backblock, delrin bolt and titanium rods but in the end the mainspring has 90% of responsibility of low cocking pressure.

Az

[Quackman71]

Older Cockers

The Front block reg is something very important on older cockers....with the stock one you had to take it apart to adjust the output, But any After market Reg fixes that. The only reason to get a new ram is for lower pressure,or the one on it is broken, 3-ways affect trigger pull and there are tons of choices out there. Well just get a diffrent gun, you would have to learn alot of stuff about the gun just to set it up the way you want it to work. While you can get a Brand New BKO for 260. But of course you need nitro. And by the way i have a 97 cocker and its always worked fine...cept when i could not stop fiddling with it and had to take it to ANS..the guy told me. "Just dont touch the acutuator rod" <--The rod between the trigger and the 3 way. Since then its worked great. Until i stoped using it, Now i use a mag. I cant seem to get my mag to work right though...

[$tevo]

if yuo know nothin bout cockers, dont bother getting one, its just gonna be a bunch of problems. i like my mag, had it for 3 years and not a problem with it, i am sending money in for a X-valve thursday and i just bout a 68/4500 crossfire tank.

[nerobro]

AzrealDarkmoonZ.. I like you already thinking outside the box.

the problem with running a light hammer spring and maintaining velocity is that the cupseal aera will hold the valve shut if the hammer spring is to light. to run freeflow weight hammer springs on a higher pressure gun would require a valve with a much smaller cupseal aera. and preferably a smaller cupseal pin as well.

You're right it's not a truism.. but.. in MOST cases i'm corect. and with higher preformance valves I "AM" correct due to their larger cupseal aera. (that's a large part in what makes a valve high flowing)

though we're now well into the realm of cocker tuning rahter than the subject of the thread ;-) any mod wanna split this thread.. I think this could be something worthy to discuss at length....'

I'll tell you my cocker's setup is for a snappy trigger pull. So I run a green hammer spring. And I use air pressure to close the valve, so I'm running a spring that's effectively a placeholder. so.. I've got 550psi going in ;-) My gun will generally stop on paint versus chop. Just like the beloved freeflows.

[temps]

My friend has a 97 cocker it fires great.

[Angry Man]

No soft triggers at 600psi

While it's true that minimum trigger pull weight is determined nearly entirely by the hammer spring, the fact is that unless you have a custom body/valve you can't have a soft trigger at 600psi. There's too much pressure behind the valve after around 400psi for it to open as fully as it could at lower pressures. That's why cockers sweetspot around 350, and don't shoot faster the more you crank the input pressure. A custom valve could probably run HP and allow for a light hammer spring, but standard valves sweetspot between 200 and 400. A merlin that runs at 150psi may have a trigger no better than a freeflow running at twice that (assuming the hammer spring is the same), but there are no valves that will work with a light hammer spring at that kind of pressure, and even if you do get it working, it'll be inconsistant and rough on the internals.

[BobTheCow]

LOL not in Canadia

Nope, sorry, not in Canadian dollars.

And the more I think about it, the more I realize how much of a ripoff that price is. lol and whoever tried to lecture me about wearing a mask, I've already GOT one, that's why I don't need this one. And the tank (according to our braniac trying to sell me this package ) is new this year, with a 5-year hydro...I'd rather not find out.

I think I'll save my money and travel the mag route come this summer, and money. Thanks for the riduculously huge amount of help though guys!! I really appreciate it.