Pre 2000 cockers = bad idea?

[BobTheCow]

Awesome, thanks for all the feedback guys!! I've now got a few questions to ask this guy .

Oh you all seemed to be pretty interested in the price: he's trying to get rid of a mask, a 9v revvy, and a small crappy steel air tank, and I'm not interested in ANY of that, so I wanna see what the price would be for just the gun. (He wanted 475 shipped on the whole package, I'm hoping for quite a bit lower on just the gun.)

**edit** woo woo, 300 posts!!
scary, considering it was just last week that i got 200... *shivers*

[nerobro]

Depends on what reg is on the n2 tank. the fact it's steel doesn't make it crappy. it's a 68ci volume of air in another container. you should be able to work him down to the $350-400 range. Of course thsi does depend on what's on the gun. You've made no mention of what trigger frame, regulators, or front end componenets are on the gun. Just the rat valve. Which IS designed for high pressure setups BTW ;-) it's prefered input is in the 500psi arena.

[cledford]

Originally posted by BobTheCow63
Awesome, thanks for all the feedback guys!! I've now got a few questions to ask this guy .

Oh you all seemed to be pretty interested in the price: he's trying to get rid of a mask, a 9v revvy, and a small crappy steel air tank, and I'm not interested in ANY of that, so I wanna see what the price would be for just the gun. (He wanted 475 shipped on the whole package...

What a rip-off!!!! 9v revis are worthless IMHO... On a cocker you won't notice it as much due to lower ROF - but you'll never use it on another gun.

With regard to the mask, it is the only piece of safety equipment used in the sport but a VERY important one. As the old rock climbing adage goes - never buy used safety equipment. In the cas e of a mask - who knows what kind of abuse a lense has be sujected to or when and if it was ever replaced.

What is the hydro date on the tank? Those smaller older steel ones are pretty old...

I own a '99 and 2000 cocker. (actually the 2k+ is a body kit I built a racegun on) The 2k+ is NOTICABLY lighter and much better looking due to the milling. They both funtion exactly the same - but I wouldn't give more the $125 including the frontend. There are WAY to many newer used cockers out there that are 2k+ and the new ones aren't theat expensive. Oh, and likely the one you're intersted in is right-feed, not center.

-Calvin

[AzrealDarkmoonZ]

air-powered.com

I am a mod over at www.air-powered.com an active cocker group

The pre 2k cockers work fine, but at the price he is qouting you it sounds a bit pricey, I assume it is a RF?

Just for comparison I got a 2k0 Cocker with Eclipse Hinge for 250. You can probably find a better deal elsewhere. The shocktech front end while decent and pretty is not the best IMHO. I have had and seen 4 bombs and out of the 4 , 3 leaked even when the orings were replaced. The Rat can be made better than the stock 2k valve BUT do not use the springs they give you. And the difference in the stock and RAT is not grossly large, of the valves only two consistently stand above the stock, the MacDev Red and Tornado.

Most Venturi bolts are WORSE than the stock bolt so might as well shove that away. All that is needed for a bolt is a different backblock, now the front block banjo bolt is a different matter entirely, the front would have to be drilled out to 2k specs.

Drop by air-powered.com if you got any cocker related questions.

Az

[UThomas]

"Just the rat valve. Which IS designed for high pressure setups BTW ;-)"

Where did you get that idea? I've been running a RAT valve since they first came out and currently run at ~220 psi fine.

[nerobro]

Your point? Pi is running his stock vavle at 220psi. that doesnt' mean i'ts DESIGNED for it. :-) The rat was designed with higher pressure in mind.

And I get that idea from Danny Love. :-)

[UThomas]

Can you explain why its recomended input is 500psi? I can't think of another high flow valve meant for high pressure. Why would you need 500 psi input unless you have it sprung wrong or it flows worse than stock?

BBT's website decribes it as:

"The original low pressure valve"

[nerobro]

BBT changed their story about the rat about.. I dunno a year ago with the introduction of the rat 3. If youw ant some classic info on the rat hit up ravi's site. Or I could give danny a call this week see if I can get it from the horses mouth.

A high flow valve is still a good valve at higher pressure. you still see the efficancy benifits. Heck you see them moreso because you can run a shorter valve duration. *grins* and remember.. the rat has changed in it's lifetime. the original rat is quite different.

[UThomas]

Well, if you find out I'd be curious to know. And yes, I have both and original RAT and a RAT 3:16. They are not that different (mostly the cup seal). There is only so much you can do with the design.

[nerobro]

Both the rat and rat 2 were designed with higher pressures in mind. Here's a few citations for ya ;-) Ravi's review of the rat 2 showing a lean towards higher pressure. And here is another with refrence to the original rat at 400 psi

And if you can find the manual to the original rat you'll see what I'm getting at.

Danny believed/s lp to be of little use (though these days it does allow for softer trigger pulls but that's another story entirely) and designed the rat with higher pressures in mind ;-)

[Angry Man]

Wow, that is a stunning rip off....

Steel tank worth about 70
Revvy worth 20
Mask 10
Cocker 120

Worth 230 at MOST for everything and I wouldn't even pay that. His asking price is beyond ridiculous. Just pick up a 2k3 with hinge NEW for 280. It's INFINITELY better and less expensive on top of that....I cannot stress how much better it wold be for the money.

Btw, it's low recocking pressure that allows for soft trigger pulls, not low operating pressure. Low recocking pressure is associated with a light main spring, and a light main spring=less force on the sear, much softer pull.

[FalconGuy016]

Where can you get a 2k3 for $280

[AzrealDarkmoonZ]

How does Low Pressure in and of itself cause easier trigger pulls?

Az

[Angry Man]

I dunno, losts of places were selling 2k2s with hinges for 300 or just under. 2k3s are still 350

As for low pressure meaning lighter trigger pulls, read my above post, it explains all.

[nerobro]

With low pressure you can run a lighter hammer spring. A lighter hammer spring privides less drag on the sear. You can also run a lighter sear spring, which means you can run a lighter trigger spring without getting a spongy feel. Everything in the trigger effects other thigns. From the shape of the sear, where you can run different shapes to adjust trigger feel.. to spring ballancing and 3 ways all affect the trigger feel. the ligher hammer spring also lets you run a lighter recock pressure.. and that loosens up the 3 way.

IT's a slippery slope. And why a really short or light cocker trigger is hard to maintain ;-)

Though we've all gotten way off topic here.

the guy wants too much money unless it's canadian ;-)