Jeremy Salms

[cphilip]

No seriously niether one of em knew it had even hit. They both occured during runs and they were off glancing shots. Not a lot of paint but still enough. I am certain they did not know. In fact they were both stunned when I ran up and called em out. And both of them are people I know and they are clean players...

Well maybe I should have said more often than some people think. But its still not a every game sort of thing. Weird things happen in batches though. Seems like you get a day like that and you think to yourself what else is gonna happen today. You might go through a whole tourney and not see one single one. And then one you see em all! Murphy's law. But they do exist. And the rules are there because they do.

In the case of those two players that I know their style they were shocked and embarassed they didn't know! They may not have ever had it happen to them before. I think that was the case from everything I could tell. I feel confident it was.

[soaklord]

cphilip,
It sounds like you are on your game as a ref, but that doesn't appear to be a norm, rather an exception. If the reps hold more players accountable and use their power to penalize this kind of thing would stop, or atleast decrease. I would love to see more honorable teams win more regularly. I think the point about potential 2 for ones or even 3 for ones is dead on. A 3 for 1 would kill even a five man team, and make it far less likely to take risks. Who holds refs accountable? At this time, are any refs paid for their services? If not, perhaps a check from the NPPL or governing body of the tournament and the potential to lose that check would make refs more likely to call better games. If so, whoever is paying for the refs seems to get gipped a lot.

[cphilip]

Well all things are relative. If it happens once a day is that a lot? If it happens once every three tournements is that a lot? I realy think we are getting into a mish mash of terminolgy and interepretation of what "More Often than you think" means than we are of that it realy does occur. I realy didn't intend to mean anything other than if it happend once a day with over 20 games it might be more often than was implied here earlier by others which sounded like they felt it just NEVER happens. So we can put that to bed as I know that we will probably agree on a similar number but maybe call it a different thing. I think it happening once in that day was suprising. It was to me.

I do know the rule was put in there because it happens and did happen. You ever seen the rule of not shooting at hang gliders? Think they forsaw that? No! Someone had to do it! crazy as it sounds. Weird huh? I figure this happened a few times and they had to think about it and include it. Enough times to at least consider it worthy of a whole distinction of the two kinds of hits.s

As far as I know Refs at major tornaments are all paid by the event. NPPL ones are. Not all events pay but those do at least. The problem is how they are chosen. They complete a class and thats it. And if they know someone to get the hook up they are asked to do it. I know Bill Cookston has tried to get a professional ref thing organized but I have not seen it actually work well yet. He is there but I bet he didn't chose all the ref team that is there. He has to take what is availvble. And I think the event promotor lines them up. I know that I and Fatman had volunteered to ref down at WC this year and they seemed to have trouble getting enough refs but still we got no call from them. And when I got there I saw people reffing that should not have been. I know we were better than some of those choices I saw. But I also did see a lot of good ones too. So I think its somewhat disorganized and people get called who know people. Not chosen because they had good reffing skills. And from what I can see their reffing skills are not evaluated on the field and people eliminated from reffing unless there is a gross incident that catches Bills attention. And I am sure that many of them do not get back to him. I do study my skills on that and the rules because I try and do a good job. As old as I am I am more inclined to ref than play.

[Smoke]

He he he...

[Smoke]

Originally posted by hitech


I disagree. I have NO problem holding a team responsible for the actions of it's members.

Sorry to get involved, but that is a bad statement. 2 of my teammates were arrested for breaking into someone's house, and stealing a safe that contained money, bullets, and drugs. I know this incident didn't happen on a paintball field, but even off the field we still represent the sport of paintball. The next day after I found this out, I kicked both of them off my team. Now, can you hold the rest of us accountable for their actions? I hope not. Like I said, even though it didn't happen on a field, it still dosen't say alot about us if we were to leave them on, so that's why they got the boot. I honestly don't have one ounce of respect for Salm, but until proven otherwise, don't hold Avalance responsible. Please, don't be so quick to judge people that may not have anything to do with the given scenario. Thanks.
-Chris- :)

[hitech]

Originally posted by automagfreek
Two of my teammates were arrested for breaking into someone's house, and stealing a safe that contained money, bullets, and drugs. I know this incident didn't happen on a paintball field...but until proven otherwise, don't hold Avalanche responsible.

I was only referring to what happens at a tournament. That said, I would have NO problem holding Avalanche responsible for the acts performed by Salm. That is, provided he was part of their team. However, I also don't have a problem with them NOT holding the team responsible. It's a tough decision and thankfully I don't have to make it.

[srrdude]

In the olympics if someone from team america or any team is tested positive for some sort or roids they are kicked out. But is the whole team? No. On the non-obvious hits issue, i hafta say they happen quite often. When someone comes over a bunker the first thing and the biggest thing that shows is the hopper (unless your stealthy with a warp like me :P). So naturally thats the biggest target. You may easily take a hopper hit and never know it becus your obviously not gonna feel it, and if your firing you prob. wont hear it either. Also, when im making a mad dash or i dive somewhere or when im bunkering someone, my back may show, like when i dive, my back is up. My pack holds 5 pods (im a front man) and it covers nearly my whole lower back. I take some shots there.

And finally Salm *sighs*

Look, lets face it. He was retarded. He was stupid, he made a horrible decision and executed it poorly and i in no way condone what he did and i would never in my life pull a stunt like that and hes got what he deserves, but i think you guys are being to harsh. Do you recal when the Rockets player Yao Mingh first came to america? Shaq made jokes bout the chinese culture and language and it was very innapropriate. I being a chink (actually im korean.. and half white.. but stereotypes are easier) myself was quite angry. But he keeps playin. Granted it is a little bit different grounds, but take Mike tyson for example. Really now who bites an ear? Well he still plays. I Think that Salm needs to apologize to... the paintballing community, the nppl, avalanche, BE, the people running the event.. everyone. Then i think he should be put out of The nppl for a year as already done, and then i think everyone should forget bout it. Everyone makes mistakes. And other than those who cause direct loss of life, everyone gets a second chance. I think that Salm, despite doing an incredibly fart sucking thing as he did, should get another chance if he proves himself worthy. After apologizing maybe he could like do all the dirty work for an entire season with little or no pay.

Besides the Punishment he already has, Jeremy will hafta live with the shame forever, and that to me is punishment enuff (but i hope he gets some crap anyways)

[ogre55]

Srrdude, I agree with pretty much your whole statement except that Salm has NOT apoligized, except in the statements he made right after the incident. And as for his behavior, as I said above, he decided to go ahead and enter an non-NPPL event less than three months after WC. What does that show? 1) That the tournament organizers of that event have their respective heads firmly tied into various parts of their anatomies (but that is another thread altogether), and 2) that Salm apparently feels little remourse to the millions of paintball players worldwide that he insulted by his antics.

Was Salm strictly prohibited from playing in the MST, or coaching a rookie team (which he has also done, and may still be actively doing)? No, not strictly. However, if I were to be in his shoes (ick) and I wanted to some day again be well regarded, I would not act like that.

He seems to think that his little sob story ("I don't know what came over me") has assuaged all the anger and upset that he has caused. It has not done so for me. I hope that once the next season rolls around, the proffessional and industry paintball community will show him, and anyone else who acts like this, that such behavior is not acceptable.

Alas, however, I am afraid that my hopes will be dashed, if people keep blathering this forgive and forget nonsense.

Ogre

[magsRus]

He cheated and I'm willing to bet all of you have wiped once in your life, just because his degree of cheating was more serious doesnt mean anything. CHEATING IS CHEATING!

[srrdude]

Well ogre i partially agree with that... He didnt apologize yet and that is ridiculous.. too much of a coward imo. But i dont think that three months and what not is bad.. i think he shouldve apologized before entering the MST tho.

MagsRus- AMEN!! i wiped once.. and i see noob kids doin it all the time when i ref...

[shartley]

Originally posted by magsRus
He cheated and I'm willing to bet all of you have wiped once in your life, just because his degree of cheating was more serious doesnt mean anything. CHEATING IS CHEATING!

[srrdude]

meh.. when u put it that way..

[ogre55]

Originally posted by srrdude
Well ogre i partially agree with that... He didnt apologize yet and that is ridiculous.. too much of a coward imo. But i dont think that three months and what not is bad..

What do you mean? Three months is enough? Three months is too much?

i think he shouldve apologized before entering the MST tho.

Apology or not, he desearved a harsh penalty. Whether the penalty he received was harsh enough will be decided in the 2004 season, when (and this is conditional on whether he is sponsered and participates) we see if he plays clean, gray or dirty.

On a side note, and I am surprised that no one has brought this up yet, he was suspended from the NPPL/PSP. Now that those two organanizations are seperate entities, can he play in the 2003 PSP tournaments. NPPL was the sanctioning body, so it's a no brainer that he is still suspended from the Super 7. But the PSP was just the promoter. Now that they are no longer sanctioned by the NPPL, theoretically, Salm would be able to play in PSP tournaments.

If the PSP allowed him to play and ignored his suspension, not only would it be a slap in the face of the NPPL, but, imo it would be a slap to the face of all paintball players everywhere.

i wiped once.. and i see noob kids doin it all the time when i ref...

So does seeing noobs wipe make it the right thing to do? And what do you do when you ref and see these kids wipe? Do you pull them. Do you 1-1 or 2-1 them?

Ogre

[mykroft]

One of the problems is that reffing is usually pretty bad.

Anybody see the Bushwackers ref Skyball?

Bad call after bad call. No 1 for 1's for playing through, no penalties for wiping, then pulling 2-3 guys off one team for nothing.

Until the reffing situation at major events is cleared up, we will have a major cheating problem.

Salm's just the worst of the lot.

[WARPED1]

There was worse cheating by nearly every pro at the Cup,I was there!Only Salm got caught that I saw.But there was blatant wiping in nearly every pro game,hot guns,sideline coaching................
So leave poor Salm/ninjaboy alone.He messed up big time,and he's paying for it.I'd take him on my team.