Chris Lasoya banned from Pan-Am

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  • Tyger
    video /k radio star
    • Oct 2002
    • 1210

    #46
    Prevention of the "Bonus Ball"

    Originally posted by DyNasTy

    2. What Lasoya did was called "punishment bunkering" he intentionally aimed for the head, the man bunkered wasnt knocked out, he just recieved a cuncusion and was sent to hte hospital to get it checked out.
    We've been talking about this over on the p8ntballer.com board too. And I have a few ideas to discourage the "Bonus Ball"

    First : Define it. A "Bonus Ball" can be defined as a paintball fired at an eliminated player with malicious intent. Under this definition, a player doing a run-through and bunkering with three shots is "ok". However, stopping at the position and shooting 12 is not "ok". Shooting players who are obviously eliminated is malicious as well. A player who is elimiated and walks through a firefight is not being shot at with malicious intent, however a player who is out of bounds and walking back to his deadbox and gets torched, that IS malicious intent.

    You can also state that anything over "X" marks on a person is overshooting, but the problem is we playa team sport. And if you have 5 guys shooting at YOU, and they each hit you one time, that's 5 hits.

    Second : Make it a written infraction. 1 for 1, no questions asked. If you are torchign dead guys, you get pulled, and so does a teammate. If you're feeling particularly nasty, make the rule so that for each additional splat mark on the player, another player gets pulled. So if you torcha guy, and put 10 marks on a dead guy, your whole team is pulled and then some the next game.

    Third : The refs need to enforce the rule. Instead of saying "it's part of the game" or "you have to accept that", pull guys for overshooting. Do it EARLY in the comp, and get the word out that it will NOT be tolerated.

    Fourth : Make a universally accepted signal for elimiated player that just about EVERYONE can do. Gun in the air is impractical, so let's go back to the Knoxville model. Player puts his off hand (Palm down) on top of his head, and walks away. Any player that does this action, or similar action, is IMMEDIATELY considered an elimiated player. (This also gets rid of the dead man's walk, BTW...) ANY Shooting of a player signaling his elimiation in such a way constitues a "Bonus ball" rule. Conversely, any player using the "Dead" signal and continuing play is penalised, as the rules already provide.

    It's my take, anyhow.

    -Tyger


    "Oh, you're wearing a tail and ears, you're a freak."
    "No social change has ever come about without freaks. Einstein was a freak. Ben Franklin was a freak. Martin Luther King was a freak. ...be proud to be included in those ranks."
    -2, The Ranting Gryphon

    Comment

    • manike
      INCEPTIONDESIGNS.COM

      • Jan 2001
      • 3820

      #47
      OK Guys, here is Chris's side of it...

      I am sorry that all of you feel this way about the incident but there are always 2 sides to every story. It did not happen this way at all. In fact the person who wrote this was not even at the event. All of his information is second hand from people who were involved. Of course he did not contact me for my side of the story. This person and I have a long history of hate between us so I guess that you people can figure that out. Anyway I had only shot the person in the goggles 1 time and he started to shot back at me so I in turn shot him back 3 times. 1 hit him in the forehead and I am sure that it hurt. I did say sorry to him and he even said that he was ok so I think the story is a little bit blown out of reason.

      Peace
      Oh and apparently it is true that the guy who wrote the article wasn't there...

      Then the guy who was on Wayde's team has said

      it is true what he said about the author of the article, he wasnt there. looking back on the article, he should have put that in there. also the author and lasoya havent been the best of friends since i have known them.
      when you said you were sorry to him i guess he was ok, but he had migrane headaches every night for about 2 weeks after that. he has been fine since then.
      i guess what i comes down to is we werent ready to go against pro style mugging. i just hope it doesnt happen to another player.
      Dynasty yes of course I am biased, I have known Chris a long time and know him fairly well. I just like to make sure I know both sides of the story before crucifying someone. There are too many 'haters' on the net. It sounds very different from the other side now, and even the guy who was posting and on the same team as Wayde seems to have backed down.

      The guy who wrote the article and Chris have always been at each other, that puts a huge bias on the article.

      Also the guy who wrote the article and got Chris banned has a huge influence on paintball in the area...

      hhmmm makes you wonder...
      Inception Designs - My new company where Innovation is the Inspiration

      Comment

      • Mighty Mike
        Too Fast Too Furious
        • Feb 2003
        • 661

        #48
        Ok...i've got 2 questions:

        1) One shot to the head vs. twelve shots to the head. Which story is true??

        2) If the incident did go down the way Chris explained, then why was he banned from the Pan Ams??

        Comment

        • manike
          INCEPTIONDESIGNS.COM

          • Jan 2001
          • 3820

          #49
          Mike if what Chris says is true it would have been 4 shots to the guy's head. 1 when he bunkered him and then 3 after the guy shot back. (that does sound like Chris playing it fair till someone is an idiot and then Chris goes over the top).

          As for why Chris was banned from the Pan Am, I do not know but I can hazard a guess...

          Originally posted by manike
          The guy who wrote the article and Chris have always been at each other, that puts a huge bias on the article.

          Also the guy who wrote the article and got Chris banned has a huge influence on paintball in the area...
          And the other guy did take 3 hits to the head after he was already out and Chris new it. He took them because he was apparently playing on and shooting back after he was eliminated... now it's still wrong for Chris to have done that, but it's unfortunately became almost the norm in tournaments because of all the cheating and playing on. If the guy had just taken the first single hit and not shot back it wouldn't have happened...

          Apparently (not sure how true this is) earlier in the day Chris had bunkered someone out and the guy then charged him in a fit. Chris at that time shot him in the lense to stop him running at him. (Chris is only a slight guy, well compared to me anyway :) )

          So many people want to hate Chris and believe all the absolute crap rumours that fly around. It can't be easy to deal with that and all the wannabe's who think it's true and go out of their way to get at him.

          It's a real shame that Pro paintball has come to this, where cheating is so common that people have come up with vigilante methods to punish the cheats. That's also why bonus balling (an aweful practice) is also so common at the top levels in USA play.

          You will find over in Europe at top events much less head bunkering and bonus balling and I believe that is because we have better judges and if people cheat, or shoot the guy bunkering them they get penalised by the judges and so the other players don't feel the need to take it into their own hands.
          Inception Designs - My new company where Innovation is the Inspiration

          Comment

          • 50 cal
            The evil voices win today
            • Nov 2000
            • 960

            #50
            And some industry people wonder why p-ball can't break into the mainstream sports world!
            Some industry peeps are the ones that try to hide this behavior. I've seen it at waaay too many big tourneys, cry like a baby enough and you will get your way with the Ultimates (cough)Bill Cookston(cough) and tourney directors and sponsors.
            If the rec players, and there are enough of us, would vote with our wallets against sponsors, you would see a change in some of ways outlandish behaviour is tolerated.

            Just one guys opinion.

            Comment

            • ogre55
              a.k.a. Ogre Wang
              • Jul 2002
              • 524

              #51
              First of, thank you Mr. Lasoya for giving us, and I assume the rest of the paintball community your side of the story. I admit that I made a few assumptions regarding the incident, not the least of which is the fact the when someone writes a story for a journalistic purpose that they were there to witness the event. Considering that both the bunkerer and the bunkered (or a member of his team) concur about both the facts and that the writer was not a witness, they definately have changed my mind about the incident.

              And thank you Manike for clearing up the rumor.

              Ogre
              Seeg images? Vee don' need no steenkin' seeg images?!?

              Comment

              • cphilip
                Former Moderator

                • Jun 2026
                • 16216

                #52
                I am inclined to believe Chris on the absence of any further proof and since the accusation was put forth by someone that wasn't even there. If thats the case then we have one side of the story. And the other side is more hear say than his is. Cause I am willing to accept Simons account that he spoke directly to Chris so... Well at this point it does sound a bit exagerated from the other side. Thats not too uncommon. And yea if someone turns on you after being shot he is prolly gonna get a few back from me too! Sorry but I am assuming he doesn't know yet he is out and I gonna make sure he knows then!


                AGD, where we are so good we can do it with only ONE tube!

                cphilip.com

                Comment

                • ShooterJM
                  Shooter Wang - Ice Ninja
                  • Feb 2002
                  • 3651

                  #53
                  Originally posted by manike
                  The guy who wrote the article and Chris have always been at each other, that puts a huge bias on the article.

                  Also the guy who wrote the article and got Chris banned has a huge influence on paintball in the area...

                  hhmmm makes you wonder...

                  Wooohoooo! Truth comes out and LaSoya is vindicated. In my book anyway.


                  It's HERE! Play at Shooter's Casino!!!!!! It'll be fun........

                  Comment

                  • manike
                    INCEPTIONDESIGNS.COM

                    • Jan 2001
                    • 3820

                    #54
                    One thing I want to make clear is that I didn't speak directly to Chris, but I will do next time I see him, Chris actually posted that on another forum where this was being discussed also.

                    One thing I will say, Chris does get into some situations, but no way near the number that people accuse him of, and there is usually mitigating circumstances and stuff behind it that casually gets forgotten when people want to rag on him.

                    He is a figure at the top of our sport, and that makes him a target (like what I did there? nice pun huh? ) for many. I don't think many people could take a lot of the unfounded aggro he does and come out of it so well.

                    Above everything he is a paintballer. And a good one.
                    Inception Designs - My new company where Innovation is the Inspiration

                    Comment

                    • SlartyBartFast
                      The Flying Scotsman
                      • Jun 2002
                      • 2940

                      #55
                      IMO, Chris' own account of the incident warrants a ban from play.

                      At no time should you deliberatly aim at someone's head (unless it's the only thing they're exposing from behind a bunker). There is absolutely reason to test the extreme limits (multiple close range hits) of the most important safety equipment we use(goggles).

                      While I still wouldn't agree with the behaviour, and would still think of it as punishable, the shots should have been aimed at the body.

                      Comment

                      • Crazy
                        Denver Altitude
                        • Dec 2001
                        • 1148

                        #56
                        some people comlain too much...
                        "I thought it through and my worst brings out the best in you." - Taking Back Sunday
                        "Cheating gets it faster." - Jimmy Eat World.

                        Paintball outfitters
                        Boostie Bomb

                        Comment

                        • manike
                          INCEPTIONDESIGNS.COM

                          • Jan 2001
                          • 3820

                          #57
                          Originally posted by SlartyBartFast
                          IMO, Chris' own account of the incident warrants a ban from play.

                          At no time should you deliberatly aim at someone's head (unless it's the only thing they're exposing from behind a bunker).

                          While I still wouldn't agree with the behaviour, and would still think of it as punishable, the shots should have been aimed at the body.
                          That's just unrealistic and certainly not outside the current rules so why should it be a banning offence?

                          Since head shots are allowed within the rules if people are worried or concerned about the results of taking headshots at close range they should wear better protective gear.

                          I know people that wear helmets to play because of that concern. It's their choice.

                          It's an individuals responsibility to protect themselves from what is legal play. Not the other person who may shoot them in a location they haven't adequatley protected...

                          That's why I wear a cup. Or maybe I should make a rule you can't shoot me in the groin?

                          Originally posted by SlartyBartFast
                          There is absolutely reason to test the extreme limits (multiple close range hits) of the most important safety equipment we use(goggles).
                          It has been done. They can take it. Although you should change the lenses after being shot at close range in the goggles... do you?
                          Inception Designs - My new company where Innovation is the Inspiration

                          Comment

                          • ShooterJM
                            Shooter Wang - Ice Ninja
                            • Feb 2002
                            • 3651

                            #58
                            Originally posted by SlartyBartFast
                            While I still wouldn't agree with the behaviour, and would still think of it as punishable, the shots should have been aimed at the body.

                            I disagree. What's interesting is that I was warned about overshooting when I played at this dude's field. I went to bunker a guy and put three shots into his chest they all bounced. He swung to fire on me so I just kept shooting until I saw one break. Ended up being the 9th or 10th shot. I was told to go for the marker or goggles so there'd be less pain and bounces.
                            It's HERE! Play at Shooter's Casino!!!!!! It'll be fun........

                            Comment

                            • luke
                              lukescustoms.com

                              • Jan 2001
                              • 8215

                              #59
                              If Chris deserves to be banned, what about Wayde? He instigated the whole mess. If ANYTHING both Wayde and Chris should have been penalized for unsportsman like conduct FOR THAT GAME. To ban either one of them for the infraction is absurd.

                              Comment

                              • luke
                                lukescustoms.com

                                • Jan 2001
                                • 8215

                                #60
                                Originally posted by manike
                                Since head shots are allowed within the rules
                                To add to this statement, I'm fairly certain there isn't a over shooting rule either.

                                Comment

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