The AGD waiting game...

[Lopy-slopy]

Lopy-slopy: I don't buy that theory, AGD knows that hundereds of people are waiting for some of these products, such as the xmag. They would make way more money if they could keep up with demand.

They can be sure they will not loose money if they only sell small batches untill the market dries up. X-mags are a diffent story I think they just can't make enough of them. Next time they shouldn't hype them so much for 6 moths before there releesed. But I think Tom was trying to get things like they are now. Right now, every X-mag that is made is Gaurenteed to be sold, because there is like a 10000000000000 year waiting list. I truely think he likes running Airgun like this because he never has to worry about not selling something.

[adam shannon]

the big picture is much diffrent...at least from my experiences. i run a small business, i leak product samles and info...when i do the net is abuzz with people clamoring to buy one. but when it actually comes to buying only 1/10th of one percent of people that come and look buy anything. buzz iz buzz...buying is another story. if i made my decisions based on what people say and dont do i would be on the unemployment line.

that said AO is a little diffrent, people here do buy...and want it right now. tom shoots himself in the foot a bit by leaking new stuff waaay before its ready...but who can blame him. i would be really proud and eager to show off new cool stuff also.

AO is a great place for mag hags to get new info...and we know before the everyday joe mag about new stuff...and we assuredly buy most of it at first till the general public knows about it.

AGD could hire more staff and do huge production runs. but think about one thing...all this demand on AO doesnt translate to the general PB world. just because the demand is so big at AO...once we all have the new stuff we want the demand will drop back to normal for everybody else. sure the x-mag could make agd a household name...but if you were tom would you bet your business on it?

agd could hire 4 times the staff and lease bigger facilities...but what happens when ao is sated and there is no continual need for huge production...lay off all those folks you hired? go back to smaller offices? or go chapter 11? if you have ever run a business you know how sick it makes you feel to lay off people you considered family...and what about the commitment you made to them to give them a job to feed their families...playing with people like that isnt nice.

give it 6 months to a year...agd will be up to speed on production with the staff and facilities they have now, tom will have sold all the units he could make to satisfy the backorders, and stock levels will be back up. nobody had to be hired and fired, tom didnt risk his business on a gamble, and anybody will be able to pick up the phone and order an x-mag out of on hand stock.

[ddinwdc]

If AGD is concerned with selling inventory

then they should institute a pre-order system with required deposits. This will provide them with a MINIMUM number to fulfill demand, and, with a deposit requirement, ensure that most of that inventory will sell. These preorders will also allow them to extrapolate a general demand number. Its tricky business, for sure, but I think AGD's conservative estimates come at the expense of customer satisfaction and interest. I think there is no question that--by playing as safe as they do--they are certainly losing business. They complained when the black ULE's sold out as the colored ones hung around, stating that AO had asked for colored ones and now we weren't buying. But honestly, what can they expect when the use something as skewed as an owners' forum to make their production decisions? Now whether AGD really wants to be a major player in this industry or not is another question; they maybe satisfied serving this niche market. But if they have any aspirations to really dominate (and they should, as this market will only grow--the demo's are insane!), then they need to put some serious thought into hiring professional marketing strategist.

[Russ]

AGD doesn't manufacture most, if not all of the components. they are sourced out to other manufacturers (machine shops) who build the parts...then they're sent out for anno (the parts that require it) THEN AGD assembled the guns.

AGD is at the mercy of their vendors...who have busy schedules themselves.

[dansim]

you buy them some more milling machines and they'll produce more guns/bodies, but until then shut yer hole and wait like the rest of ao, all this *****ing is frankly falling on deaf ears, you think tom looks on ao and say oh no i have someone whos not happy with a wait time i recieved from a company, id better go make him his gun personally, ...um no, hes more or less worried about teh feedback and perhaps some problems that maybe the company missed....deaf ears

[tmnothing]

Apparantly the AGD customers are starting to get impatient with the unavailability of what they want. It seems to me like those of us waiting to order parts for our gun are starting to get upset with the lack of effort that AGD is showing us with respect to increasing their manufacturing capabilities. I'm waiting for a black ULE and a black Intelliframe, and when they're finally back in stock I almost dont expect to get one because their gonna sell so fast. AGD has been known for being such a great company in terms of products and support, but they're really hurting themselves I think by not making what we want available.

[jaylock33]

waiting sucks, but you know what your waiting for is quality so you deal with it. better to wait for something good than to instantly have a piece of junk.

[ChucktheMAGician]

Originally posted by jaylock33
better to wait for something good than to instantly have a piece of junk.

That's definately quote worthy!

[ddinwdc]

Wow, Dan

you are indeed an eloquent man. AGD ears may be deaf (although I expect not), but those belonging to the majority of us posting in this thread are not. Clearly, this is developing into an issue. As for the gentleman who claimed that we are waiting for quality, this is true; AGD manufactures quality products. However, they are not the ONLY company to do so in this industry. This is the common lament of for those playing the AGD waiting game--"at least its not junk". Well, most of what is produced in this industry isn't junk. That isn't really a valid point. The autococker is fine marker, the WGP line and a whole slue of others. And for those of you who love to tell us to "go somewhere else, AGD doesn't care", or "keep complaining and they won't make any more products" (I love the second one--what are we, children begging for an ice cream cone?), I promise you they WILL keep making products as long as we buy them and they WILL care when we stop. Then you won't have any AGD products either. Ah...got to love a guy who quotes himself.

[Dayspring]

The complaining is getting somewhat excessive really...

There are at least 3 different threads all dealing with this. And we can say and post all we want, but the fact of the matter is, the Xmags are being done about 35-40 a month. There will ALWAYS be a wait for them. That comes STRAIGHT from Tom himself. The Xmag is the flagship marker.

Honestly, all the complaining isn't going to get the guns out faster. Good things come to those who wait.

[Kaiser Bob]

Originally posted by Dayspring
The complaining is getting somewhat excessive really...

There are at least 3 different threads all dealing with this. And we can say and post all we want, but the fact of the matter is, the Xmags are being done about 35-40 a month. There will ALWAYS be a wait for them. That comes STRAIGHT from Tom himself. The Xmag is the flagship marker.

Honestly, all the complaining isn't going to get the guns out faster. Good things come to those who wait.

This coming from the man who didnt have to wait for his Xmag

[Xyxyll]

My only guess is that AGD wants to stay as small of a company as possible, although I don't consider AGD a small company. I will say though that I am also a little confused with AGD on the business side.

[ddinwdc]

"Complaining", or rather, slumping sales

will, in fact, make things come faster. That is, unless AGD is exempt from the pressures of a free market. If this is so, then they have achieved something that no other business in the history of economics has achieved, placing Tom above Keynes in the hierarchy of economic theory! I suspect, however, that this is not the case. Any business is going to care what its customers think and do everything within reason (read, economically feasible) to accommodate the request. Complaining is good; complaining gets results. Without complaining, no LX.

[Dayspring]

AGD does what it can afford to do.

People want LOTS of things from them. They want new products, they want Xmags, they want AGD staff to come out to events.

What Tom is doing is balancing the need all over the place. You can't make all the people happy all the time, but you can make MOST of the people happy MOST of the time.

The Xmags are coming out, slowly yes, but they are coming out. (We do realize, Ddinwdc, that Tom doesn't actually OWN the Xmag body right? He gets them from AGD-E.) Tom is doing aluminum bodies for people now. He's working on the Y-Grip frames. He's working on the superlight mechanical trigger. He is also taking time to do events throughout the US with his staff.

What would happen if he decided to not do one of those projects. People would get angry wouldn't they? He can't make EVERYBODY happy. He has to do what he can and balance.

It's very easy for us to say "Why don't you do this or why don't you do that." The thing is, are we in his position? Do we have to deal with the issues of production and research that he does? No.

We can voice our opinion. It's a free country. However, until we walk a mile in Tom's shoes, we shouldn't criticize his business practices. He's smart enough to have gotten this far. What say we let the man do his work and get off his back?

EDIT-- And at least keep it to ONE thread. There are 3 on this page alone dealing with this. We all know there's a wait. Deal with it. You're stating the obvious.

[WARPED1]

It's simple, you need to spend money to make money. He needs to sideline all projects except 1, like the Xmag. Buy the design, invest in milling machines in house, hire more staff, and crank those puppies out!
Customers are sick to death of waiting, and even some die hard AGD folks will move on. TK says if you're sick of waiting, buy a differen't gun. This is a piss poor business strategy. He's basically telling you not to buy his stuff.
Everyone says it's expensive. True. But if you get the Xmag out in full swing, the non AO crowd will see what they been missing and pick one up.
It seems AGD has lots of projects 90% done, and not one 100% done.
Well, that last 10% is going to take 90% of your time, I see horrid time mismanagement.
If I were AGD, I'd either pack it in and call it quits, or meet the demand the public wants.
People say, once the AO crowd gets satisfied, he wouldn't need all that extra stuff. That's where heavy advertising swings in. If you saturate the public with images of AGD stuff, get some more pros using them, they would be flying out the door!
Maybe, if feasable, lower the price a bit, or offer a cheaper base model or something of the sort. Make the ACE an option, not standard. Who needs it with LX anyway?
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