The AGD waiting game...

[Dayspring]

Tom himself said that there will ALWAYS be a wait for the Xmags. If people don't want to wait for the pretty Xmag, go with a ULEmag. It's the same performance, not as pretty but is a cheaper alternative. And once the production of bodies gets REALLY going, there will be upgrade body kits.

Tom could go out and drop all sorts of $, but then what happens if he doesn't sell all the Xmags? He's got $$$$ invested and gets $$ return. That doesn't balance out. Companies that do that go out of business.

There are things that we aren't seeing that Tom has to deal with in regards to production of these works of art. We can speculate and say "Tom should do this." But in reality, it's his company and he'll run it as he sees fit.

[MinimagRockin']

ddinwdc and warped, you guys are the voice of reason, preach on.

Dayspring: If the xmag is the flagship gun they should be making a hell of alot more of them. How can you call something your "flagship" gun if no one can get one, and you can't even come close to meeting demand? It's ludicrous.

Dansim: That was the most ignorant post of this thread. Sure I'll go buy them some more milling machines with my own money so I can spend another $1500 on the gun they crank out. And this is by far not falling on deaf ears. AO is the reason you have lx, ule bodies, xvalve, etc, etc. The list goes on, AO is the best thing that's happend to AGD in a long time and AGD does listen.

[WARPED1]

Obviously TK's not confident the Xmag would sell. Running a business is a gamble.

Tom could go out and drop all sorts of $, but then what happens if he doesn't sell all the Xmags? He's got $$$$ invested and gets $$ return. That doesn't balance out. Companies that do that go out of business.

If he goes this way, and doesn't take a risk, the novelty of the X will fade, and we won't hear about AGD anymore.
Sure he can run his company as he sees fit, but the way he's appearently going, he will never "make it".

[MinimagRockin']

Originally posted by Dayspring
Tom himself said that there will ALWAYS be a wait for the Xmags. If people don't want to wait for the pretty Xmag, go with a ULEmag. It's the same performance, not as pretty but is a cheaper alternative. And once the production of bodies gets REALLY going, there will be upgrade body kits.

Tom could go out and drop all sorts of $, but then what happens if he doesn't sell all the Xmags? He's got $$$$ invested and gets $$ return. That doesn't balance out. Companies that do that go out of business.

There are things that we aren't seeing that Tom has to deal with in regards to production of these works of art. We can speculate and say "Tom should do this." But in reality, it's his company and he'll run it as he sees fit.

AGD knows that the xmag will sell more than the current trikle of them becoming available, they know it for a fact, so increasing supply will result in more sales. If sales start slowing they can always slow down production. It's a simple formula really, that's why I'm so curious to know why they aren't doing anything about it. As far as the last part of your post; In my original post I wasn't saying that Tom should do anything, I was asking a question.

[wyn1370]

Originally posted by Dayspring
The complaining is getting somewhat excessive really...

There are at least 3 different threads all dealing with this. And we can say and post all we want, but the fact of the matter is, the Xmags are being done about 35-40 a month. There will ALWAYS be a wait for them. That comes STRAIGHT from Tom himself. The Xmag is the flagship marker.

Honestly, all the complaining isn't going to get the guns out faster. Good things come to those who wait.

I agree the amount of complaints has increased. But think about it. It's finally boiling over. People are sick of waiting. Quality control this and supplier issues that. They have been in production for over a year and how many are out? Not what Tom keeps claiming production level should produce. This issue went away for a long time, but what did that solve? nothing, so everyone is finally voicing their opinion that they have kept bottled up for a year.

[WARPED1]

Originally posted by wyn1370

I agree the amount of complaints has increased. But think about it. It's finally boiling over. People are sick of waiting. Quality control this and supplier issues that. They have been in production for over a year and how many are out? Not what Tom keeps claiming production level should produce. This issue went away for a long time, but what did that solve? nothing, so everyone is finally voicing their opinion that they have kept bottled up for a year.

Exactly, 6 months is a friggin ridiculous amount of time! 1 or 2 months is ok imo.

[Shykicker]

One inconsistancy I'm seeing is the coexisting of two problems that SHOULD, by all feats of logic, cancel eachother out:

1. AGD: There aren't enough buyers.

2. AO: There aren't enough guns.

How can both these problems exist? Because AGD insists on selling through vendors. That, in itself, is fine. But when you're relying on external stores to buy exactly as much as you have produced, you end up either not making enough guns to settle the demand (and end up with dissapointed customers), or you make too many to eliminate the surplus (and end up with dissapointed bankers).

Why not sell the surplus on www.airgun.com? AGD Europe sells their own guns, why can't we?

If the problem is maintaining an appeal for vendors to buy, it's relatively moot. There are already tons of AGD vendors out there to begin with, and one central retailer isn't going to effect their sales much, PROVIDED they are sold at similar or slightly higher prices, and at no heightened interest to the buyer.

If the problem is that consumer interest may not be there, adjust your schedule to compensate.

How can we aliviate both problems at once? Provide the surplus (unordered) amount of guns FIRST at the airgun.com store, at a heightened price from the estimated retail, and then allow the competing vendors to sell them for cheaper.

Personally, I would rather spend more money on a quality product than spend more time waiting for it. What good is a product that never comes? If cost is such a problem, I don't think that anybody buying an X-Mag is going to mind an extra $10 to improve AGD. It's a drop in the bucket.

I'm no economist, to be sure, but I think it's a creative solution, and I'd like to see how it fares with you guys. I'm sure there are factors that I haven't considered, so feel free to have a stab at it.

To pose a final question...

If a person buys an X-Mag, retro-fits it with a Y-grip, and installs a Z body- is it an XYZ-Mag?

[than205]

Here's my thoughts:
I look at the X-mag Cut and Carved as a "Premium and Custom" paintball marker.
I look at Emag as the flagship and future basis of AGD markers.
I think a great bunch of people saw the C&C and decided they wanted something pretty. Honestly, what does it give you over the a regular emag?

Ace? (bell or whistle?) And I don't see the point with L10.

Pretty milling?

Removable breech? (ummm kinda neat but...)

The last thing you come to is weight. Well ULE seems to be covering that pretty well.

The wait on the ULE bodies: I honestly believe that AGD was hoping some other companys' would have been able to take the Sluggos and run with them. Thereby making all kinds of "different" types of mags and AGD could offer the "Engine" (valve) to make it all run. Well that didn't take off so he started making the ULE bodies.
I look at the ULE bodies as still just an AO thing. I do believe it's growing though.

Availability: this is just based on my thoughts. I think AGD likes their vendors and like any supplier wants to provide to them first. To me that's the way it goes. They are the future walk-in sales. They can put it in the hands of the prospective non-AO buyer.

To sum up, if you need all the fluff of the C&C. If you believe that the fluff makes you a better player or the game more fun. At least for now, there's a wait.

It's all about the science. Cause if it isn't, then Elves do exist and we all bought the wrong stuff.

[WARPED1]

Well, cool anno and sexy milling give you at least +6 BPS!

[Mr.Minus]

hmmi read 5 posts of this thread and thought...

didnt tom kaye (agd) just answer this? he said that previous projects did not sell very well even though they were very well received by the AO community, i know i would say something is a great idea, but in the end not buy something, which is what they want to avoid...thats one reason why they only make smaller quantities, (past experience), i guess we have not proved ourselves at AO