Why Was AGD NOT at the Chicago PSP???

[Spaceman613]

I saw more people and teams attend the PSP event. maybe I went to nppl on the wrong day (saturday).

I was very dissapointed they werent there. but so were other vendors. Like KAPP?

I do agree that missing an event this close to home is odd, but Im sure they have thier reasons.

[damageinc54]

Re: Re: marketing

Originally posted by hitech
Still, I think someone should have at least been on hand to do technical support.

I dont think they really needed anybody there for tech support since for the most part NOBODY was using their equipment!!!! The only team using their products was the AGD sponsored teams and a few other guys. Plenty of Timmys, Cockers, Angels, Impulses, and Matrix's though. AGD is never going to compete with any of these companies unless they get off their butts and do something. They had a tiny little booth at the NPPL but at least they were there. The PSP event was much bigger than the NPPL and all the best teams were on hand. I was there with my team mates all weekend and there were crowds of players there all day. I have had guys ask me at every event I attend about my ULE body on my Emag. Most of them have never heard of it and have no idea where to buy it. The comment I hear most is "WOW AGD made that for the mag!!! Where can I get one" It disappoints me that fossil hunting seems more important to Tom than making sure he has some kind of exposer at one of the biggest local events in Chicago. I would have ran the damn booth for AGD if they could not get anybody else to do it. I always hear how AGD likes to rip Smart Parts. I even got to hear all of Toms little comments about them at the Super Tour at AGD. Well I was able to walk up to the Smart Parts trailer, have Adam Gardner hand me a 2003 Shocker and explain all if it's features. He seemed really proud of his product. Where was Tom or at least some AGD employee to gloat about the X-Mag? Tom, I love my Emag, but I am disappointed about the lack of promotion of it.

[cphilip]

Some AGD employees were there. But they did not have a booth. Some other manufacturers did not either.

Tom did have his vacation scheduled and eventualy did go on that vacation.

Thats all I know.

[Gecko]

going to the tournament is not free, PSP charges you to set up a booth. Hell as far as i know they would have charged agd to simply have a place to tech guns. I think agd made a choice to wait for IAO instead of doing a half *** job at chicago.

[CFD323]

Listen, added on from hitech, the NPPL is much "bigger" and has been promoted much better than PSP, that is probabally why i think tom skipped PSP and went to NPPL. The Nppl is also "cleaner" in my ideas, with the judging, and it is much more professionally run.

I attended both events and I have to say by far the PSP event was much better. The only thing that NPPL did better was to have the schedule available online so you always knew who was playing where and when. Maybe PSP had the same thing but I couldn't find it online. (PSP had a schedule for 5 and 10 man for the first day or 2 but not for later on and not for X-ball.)

Here's my review of each :

NPPL Good :
-had a schedule of teams/games each day

NPPL Bad :
-too crowded due to fields and stands being cramped together,
-only 2 really top notch pro teams in Naughty Dogs & Dynasty (others may play good but let's not kid ourselves, the Dogs and Dynasty are it),
-wasn't impressed with the selection of vendors (maybe cuz I don't buy much from the vendors that were there.),
-not very spectator friendly



PSP Good :
-Field and vendors laid out very well. All the X-ball fields were together so it was easy to switch to each field during play,
-X-ball is awesome and the future of tournament paintball. If anything ever gets paintball on tv, it will be X-ball,
-Crowds seemed to be into the X-ball,
-Basically all the pro teams are in the PSP (be it NXL or Division I) which provides much better competition,
-Much better selection of vendors (Evil, DYE, JT, Shocktech, Smart Parts, WDP, Diablo, WGP and many others),
-reffing for NXL was great I thought plus penalties added to the strategy of the game too,
-beer sales,
-free beer for the Miller Lite sponsored party after games on Saturday.


PSP Bad :
-some questionable reffing during the Dogs/Strange games,
-never saw any schedule other than the first 2 days,
-didn't hear about the free Miller Lite after game party until Sunday. It was held on Saturday evening.



I thought PSP had bigger crowds than the NPPL. And let's face it, X-ball is the future of paintball. It's 10 times more exciting than traditional 10-man and the it allows the crowds to get into the games. I definitely found myself being drawn into the excitement of the X-ball games whereas 10-man it's not like that. Not to mention that the X-ball is fast ! If paintball gets on tv someday, it will be X-ball that gets it there. It's definitely more exciting for the non-playing spectator crowd. I will go to both tournaments next year too but if I had to pick one or the other, it would definitely be PSP. I'm looking forward to going to the PSP in Orlando in October.

X-BALL ROCKS !!!!!

GO CHICAGO AFTERSHOCK !!!!!!!

[Brett23]

Hmmm went from AGD missing an event to which is better the PSP or Nppl. Any ways back to the origanl subject. I also agree that AGD dropped the ball on this one. My local shop just got in 8 black ULE bodies and somewhere around 80 LVL 10's. They sold out of the ULE bodies in one day, and only have 10 LX's left, and this was from an area that doesnt even like mags. The chances of selling alot of stuff in 2 days just went out the window for AGD. Maybe they are trying to get stock up for the IAO. Who knows. The advertisments are so far and in between the last time I saw an AGD add in a magazine was when RT pro came out. I dont pretend to understand business but if yah want your stuff to sell I would think you would want to have as many ppl be aware of it as possible. The only thing I've ever seen on the Emag was a review in APG mag. Now I know with the way that the AGD Kids are ripping though these tourneys that the Xmag is getting some reconition. Thats still not enough. Did the timmy get big from one team destroying everyone. Nope it was from advertisment and team after team having them. Thats what the kiddies see. So thats what the kiddies want. Ule the emag, takes some pictures, pay some space in a magazine or 2 and lets get the ball rolling.

[RT pRo AuToMaG]

I'm too lazy to go and quote this but someone said that a boot and advertizing is not cheap. Well, I know it's not cheap, but it works to get sales, and the more sales you make, the more money you make. If you can get everyone to know about your new product, it may not sell right away, but I guarentee you it will sell more then not advertizing. Now, you have something great such as the ULE bodies, and they will probably go so fast, they'll pay for themselves in no time. I think AGD needs to take out a loan, up the size of the company, advertize, and produce more guns. You can have quantity and quality at the same time you know, and if you do, your product will sell. Now, this may be hard to believe, but most people at my field have no idea what an xmag is, but if you show them an angel, or matrix, or impulse, they know what it is. Part of it may be because teams use them, but the biggest part is advertizements! Spyders aren't great guns, but they sell from magazine ads! If a beignner picks up a paintball magazine for the first time, sees AGDs name, then they may just develop a liking for the product(s) and want to buy! Part of making a good product is marketing my friends, and if you don't market well, then you have ultimately failed. Sure, the product is good, but who cares if no one knows what it is? There is no excuse not to be at a LOCAL EVENT. None at all. They should have been at the PSP event and the NPPL event. Major tourneys like that is the way to get your product out, becuase people can actually see the product in person, and use it.

[HOMOCIDAL2]

who cares

I'll bet none of you give up your vacation. Maybe Mr. Kaye gets tired of paintball for a couple of weeks a year, and wants to look at fossils. Thats his business. As far as his products go, ever since I bought my first mag ten years ago, I'll always use them. No matter what anybody thinks, because I like them. I don't care if he ever advertises anywhere as long as the quality stays the same. If 500,000 people don't know where to buy AGD stuff, I do. So let people go on vacation. It's nice to get away from work for a while.

[shartley]

Re: who cares

Originally posted by HOMOCIDAL2
I'll bet none of you give up your vacation. Maybe Mr. Kaye gets tired of paintball for a couple of weeks a year, and wants to look at fossils. Thats his business. As far as his products go, ever since I bought my first mag ten years ago, I'll always use them. No matter what anybody thinks, because I like them. I don't care if he ever advertises anywhere as long as the quality stays the same. If 500,000 people don't know where to buy AGD stuff, I do. So let people go on vacation. It's nice to get away from work for a while.

[JAM]

I agree Shartley, AGD has never been into "real" advertising, but now they need to really get into it and take everychance to show the new stuff they're coming out with. many many of the negatives of the older mags have been addressed and fixed and the public needs to be able to see this.

[AGD]

Thanks guys....thanks a lot...

After personally traveling to over a dozen events almost every weekend for months, we don't go to ONE event and you drag me over the rocks. Go ahead pick up the bat and hit me in the head again... I am getting used to it and maybe soon I will learn to like it and be able to relax on a vacation.


Still reading the forums from Wyoming,

AGD

[shartley]

Originally posted by AGD
Thanks guys....thanks a lot...

After personally traveling to over a dozen events almost every weekend for months, we don't go to ONE event and you drag me over the rocks. Go ahead pick up the bat and hit me in the head again... I am getting used to it and maybe soon I will learn to like it and be able to relax on a vacation.


Still reading the forums from Wyoming,

AGD

[jaylock33]

Alot of this sounds like it's ripping AGD for not going and showing new products like the X-mag, the ULE trigger and the Y frame. I do think that AGD should have been there in some way or another. However it seems like every other week someone on these boards tears into AGD about the X-mags not being available. Does AGD really need to go out there and tell even more people about a product that they currently can't keep in stock so they can get blasted by even more people.

Onto the ULE trigger the point of a beta test as I understand it to be is for a limit number of people who have an idea of what their doing to test the product and report flaws to the manufacturer. So once again a whole lot of people knowing about products they can't get their hands on doesn't strike me as a good idea especially when the product ism't fully tested.

As for the Y frame if one was available to be shown it should have been there along with the E-mag, the ULE Body and the Level X. So basically yes they should have been there but only with certain products.

[QUINCYMASSGUY]

sad but true

Sorry if you're insulted Tom but if people are annoyed enough to post about it then it's a key issue and the posting is more along the lines of Tough Love than insults and lack of gratitude. The whole reason most of us are taking the time to post like this is because we want to see your company succeed but mistakes like missing a key event like this and not getting the products out there is what is hurting you and there really should be minimal excuses for missing this huge event. We're not posting all over other sites, we're bringing it straight to you because we know you listen and read this. We're doing it to help bring this concern to your attention and help you out.

And definitely enjoy a break! You have worked hard these last couple months, but as some have posted we assume you have hired some qualified individuals other than yourself at Airgun Designs who know how to run a booth and that the company doesn't fall apart when you're away. I know your employees, they definitely know their stuff and work well with customers. Don't take the world on your shoulders, let them take a more proactive role so you don't have to be working during your vacation like this!

We respect you Tom, this is definitely not about saying AGD is bad, it's about helping you become stronger. And definitely don't take it personally, it's business.

[AGD]

Well the story is that both tournaments (PSP/NPPL) are a LOT more expensive than the PSP used to be. Its 2k cash for the both and SOMETHING like 3-4k in product additional. We have to shut down the sales and the tech department for days and we end up with literally hundreds of pissed off customers. We get behind on gun repairs and have a backlog of messages to cach up on.

The fact is that all of the people at the pro tournaments still think we suck or look at us as a rec gun. No amount of show and tell is going to change their minds. As an example look at Kingman, Bad Company is doing pretty good and they invested in a huge trailer. Not changing anyones mind about Spyders are we?

The sales numbers at the pro events don't justify the investment. As an example we sold more at the AO Megameet with 35 people than we did at Super 7. The size of the booth doesnt matter in the least, the cost is still the same.

We did the S7 thinking all the Chicago people would go to that one considering the success of the other NPPL events. There is a tournament war on right now and we can't afford to go to them all so don't expect us too. That's the way it is. Dye and Smart Parts are not showing up at NPPL events and WDP is a no show at PSP, any comments?

AGD