Im Confused!!!! Bounce vs. reactivity

[FallNAngel]

Originally posted by SlartyBartFast
The game should be about the skill of the players, not how padded the recipient is or how brittle the paint is.

Would that include the skill of aiming for a hard place such as the pack? Refs are already supposed to check uniform to make sure it's acceptable length and such. I think the problem with a lot of this is the refs just don't care...

[SlartyBartFast]

Originally posted by FallNAngel
Would that include the skill of aiming for a hard place such as the pack?

The skill should be hitting the player.

The only reason you have to hit a "hard" place is that there is so much padding in the first place. That and the rules stupidly make only hits leaving paint "valid" for eliminations. That's a fine rule for if there's a dispute, but not if it's clear to the ref the player was hit by paintballs.

It's like having hockey or soccer goals only count ig the puck/ball stays in the net. Or penalties for punches only if there's blood.

The various tournamnet rules are all fairly easily interpreted as: if you can reasonably be expected to have felt the impact, you should check yourself. So even then, on the first impact the player being bunkered is supposed to be checking themselves or calling for a teammate or ref to do so.

[lamby]

Well, net me back to the subject on the difference between bounce and "reactivity".

Trigger "bounce" is normally equated to "switch noise" all switches that use contacts will bounce off of the contact and generate multiple "contacts" from one depress. "debounce" is eliminated in a bunch of ways: most common are capacitive, and electronic. The capacitive measure uses a capacitor that will filter all the small false contacts to ground (thinking that they are AC which a cap will pass, as there is not enough time to charge the cap) a full contact will charge the cap and then pass the voltage out. Electronicly, you can have the circuit ignore any further contacts for a set amount of time until another read is allowed. This is what you see in timmies and e-cockers when you can adjust the "debounce" to 0 Normally you will see "bounce" on a contact release too.

"reactivity" is everything else. If you fire a marker with a set amount of pressure on the trigger and the recoil (or the trigger rod in a mag) causes the contact on the trigger to be lost then re aquired, that is reactivity and not bounce. But, electronic debounce can eliminate that also. capacitive debounce will help, but only to a point as the recharge time for the cap will start to effect the shaping of the pulse if you go to high (increased rise and fall times)

If you look at an e-cocker, or an IR3 angel, these use interupter led switches, these inherently do not have ANY bounce and the "full auto" effect you get is from reactivity. I do not know what switch is inside a timmy as I have never took one apart. The emag uses a bouncy HES system, and the angel LCDs use a contact switch (highly bouncy)

Hope this helps.

PS, a reactive gun that is shooting full auto with one trigger pull is still in all practicality a semi auto marker, the trigger is just moving fast enough to make it look full auto. The problem lies in what the rules state. With no air, a mag could be fine and with air go full auto. The rt/effect and recoil is causing the reactivity. If it goes full auto with no air, that is trigger bounce.

I just realized that this tread is almost a year old, and I posted in this before :P

[RtDaNiMaL]

i dont no about u guys but i totallt agree with BillMi cus just cus it might be uncomfortabe for players to get 20 bps doesnt mean they wont. they will do wut ever it takes to get out a player. any person in paintball knows that (especially tourney guys.)

[tonybhall]

Spirit of the rule

There is a phrase that is often used when trying to interprit (sp) laws and rules: "Spirit of the law" (or in this case, spirit of the rule.)

Of course we don't want people reaching 20 bps through artificial means. If we are going to allow that we might as well just allow full auto mode. What I am saying is, just because a gun bounces does not nessecarily give it or the player an unfair advantage. I can make my RT Pro bounce, but it is so extremely hard to do that it takes pulling the trigger at a rate of about once every 3 seconds. Then, I only get one bounce. That's 2 shots in 3 seconds. Do the math, that's less than 1 BPS.

Now, obviously I am not getting any advantage out of this. This is not in violation of the "SPIRIT OF THE RULE." However, it is still bounce and can be achieved if you pull the trigger slowly enough. So, if a ref makes my RT PRO bounce by taking 5 seconds to pull the trigger, per Bill's statement, it should be pulled from the game. That is just nonsence. Let's have a little common sence here.

I an in no way getting any unfair advantage by the fact that my marker will bounce one time if I pull the trigger painfully slow. We should be focusing on real cheating and real problems and not letting 16 year old refs excersize their new found power by eliminating people for silly crap.

Just my 2 cents.

Bryan

[Brophog]

That might apply to YOUR GUN.

However, when we start talking about markers that I can slide my finger on (raking) and achieve 14-15 bps even though my finger only hit it 3 times, or markers that go off 5 times just by touching the trigger; that's cheating!

I wont use said markers, and not just because I play pump! I personally cannot control the markers ROF well enough for myself to feel comfortable with them. Some people can, but I cannot.

Either way, you must draw the line somewhere; you allow marker assistance or your don't. It doesn't matter if it comes in the form of forced return, software cheating, firing modes......etc.

You either allow them, or you don't. The way the rules are written now, they explicitly say NO. The way the rules are interpreted are a different matter altogether.