Cheater Boards (How to Stop Them)

[Spartan X]

How bought every one will have to be required to use a rental :) like a Gun provided by the field or just for the tourney. All the guns would perform the same, and only team strats would win.

[Sir_Brass]

What I am saying is:
1. make a chip that locked to the board via encripted serial number.
2. use chips that can only be programmed once (ePROMS)to feed a dedicated non-programmable processor like a 8088 persay.
3. Store user data and settings in a non-volital ram chip outside of the processor.
4. use a security tag to secure the chip to the socket with the manifactures code to verify it is legit.

An 8051 would be a cheaper alternative, simply because it's a standard in IC's, and is known by the vast majority of microprocessor programmers in the industry, so it would be better for the manufacturers to use something as solid as the 8051.

Now, I have a problem with "program only once" chips. Namely, what if software needs to be updated? Case in point: emag/xmag software. Though, maybe you're referring to chips that can only be programmed by a chip programmer, like with Atmel's chips (I have eperience working with their AT89c51 chip, which is their 8051 replica), and programming software such as SuperPro. Make it so that the tools required to reprogram are difficult if next to impossible for an ordinary guy to aquire. Make it hard for him to get the tools necessary, and the discouraging factor will rise.

If we design an anti-cheat, someone will design a better cheat if determined enough. What needs to be done is to make it hard enough so that most don't have the determination to crack the anti-cheat and it becomes easier to simply practice and get better as a player than to cheat.

[lamby]

I would use program once eproms inside a socket (I like the small PLCC sockets for this). I would use a fixed code processor to run the data from the eprom. Sorta like a write once bios for an old computer. The eprom code would have to match the circuit card code to make it work and secure though.

It dont matter much as no one will ever make them. It is just a way to fix the problem of cheater boards

[hitech]

Originally posted by lamby
It is just a way to fix the problem of cheater boards

But you still have the problem of "helper" cheater boards.

I'm beginning to understand F1's decision.

[SlartyBartFast]

Originally posted by hitech
But you still have the problem of "helper" cheater boards.

That's still a specious argument. How on Earth are you going to hide a "helper" board?

[hitech]

Originally posted by SlartyBartFast
How on Earth are you going to hide a "helper" board?

It depends on how much time I put into it. The board would be VERY small. In the eMag a simple place for it would be under the current board. It would require removing the stock board to find it. It could go in the battery housing. It could go in a warp and the controlling wires disguised as the warp intellilink. It could be in a board that looks like a cutoff switch. It could… you get the idea. And I haven’t even tried to think of a good place. That’s just off the top of my head without evening taking the eMag apart and looking. Just think what someone who really wanted to build one could come up with.

[SlartyBartFast]

Originally posted by hitech
It depends on how much time I put into it.

Expensive and time consuming.

The board would be VERY small.

Expensive, time consuming, require specialised knowledge and equipment. At least far more than a downloadable programming assembler and a connection cable.

In the eMag a simple place for it would be under the current board. It would require removing the stock board to find it. It could go in the battery housing. It could go in a warp and the controlling wires disguised as the warp intellilink. It could be in a board that looks like a cutoff switch.

[manike]

Originally posted by SlartyBartFast

Boards are getting smaller and smaller, and thats for the complete control of a marker, let alone just a signal device to add extra inputs...

I just received a chaos board for the bushmaster, and I could hide that in many places on a gun that you would never easily find without taking the whole thing to pieces. It's around 3/4 of an inch square... I could hide that in the body of many guns if I wanted to. I could also make it very hard for you to see the wiring route, or disguise it/make a run off path from where the wiring normally goes.

The difficulty is if people want to cheat, I see no cost effective and acceptable means of being able to catch all cheats at the moment. A sad issue but very true.

[hitech]

Originally posted by SlartyBartFast
Sorry but the argument is still specious. While technically it sounds plausible, it’s extremely improbable.

Expensive, time consuming, require specialized knowledge and equipment. At least far more than a downloadable programming assembler and a connection cable.

No it would not. Just about everything you need to know was detailed in a warpig article on using a basic stamp to control a paintgun. For $100 you get almost everything you need.

Originally posted by SlartyBartFast
And if anybody with a single iota of knowledge is allowed to examine your marker and mark it with tamperproof marks before an event and if you win they impound it and have a really close look, you’ll never get away with it.

That is possible true. Assuming there was such a thing as a tamperproof mark/seal. However, that was not the situation I was referring to. Do you think there is ANY chance that the NPPL or PSP will somehow “seal” markers with tamper resistant marks and impound winning markers; and have electronics experts inspect them?

Originally posted by SlartyBartFast
A “helper” board would require modification of a legal controller board.

Nope.

Originally posted by SlartyBartFast
If you think such a “helper” board could actually be devised for a current setup, let’s hear specifics.

Okay, one simple example (that’s as much time as I have at the moment). This is the “hidden under the existing board” version. The helper board would be a basic stamp. It would be tapped into the trigger switch lines (I/O ports) from the bottom side of the existing board. It would detect the trigger pulls and at some preset event would do its thing. This could be as simple as adding a trigger pull for every X number it detects when the ROF is over a certain amount. X could be a table in the code so it’s pattern isn’t detectable.

Removing the grip panel, inspection from that vantage point and downloading the code from the existing board will NOT detect this.

[magman007]

Ok, no i havnt read the whole thread, and no i really dont care to. I perused the front page, where all the important points were made, and all i have to say is... WHO THE HELL REALLY CARES?

HAve you been cheated against? HAve you been cheated out of the win from a tournament? have you missed tons of prizes and cash oppertunities, because some kid with an electro, was bouncing his trigger at 18 bps with ease? Can you prove that he was?

Listen, the fact is, people can shoot 18 bps with or without bounce, dont say it is impossible, because it isnt. I could do it on my matrix, and no it wasnt bouncing... i hate bounce. it messes up my rhythem. Any body can rake at 18bps just as easily as the little kid with his was'ed out timmy can bounce his trigger. I think those who complain about Electros and cheatr boards and allt his crap need to get off their sticks, and look at the facts.

If you are getting continiously shot out by these people that are keeping a line on your bunker, and relentlessly pelting your bunker, then you need to learn how to play tighter.

If you are getting out because there is a relentless rain of paint on your bunker, and you feel you are at an unfair advantage because he has kept you in your bunker, then you need to learn how to snap shoot.

if you are getting shot out, and you can achieve the same, or close to the same ROF (face it, there isnt that much of a diference between 14(avg walking speed on an electro) and 18 bps) then the problem my friend, is in the player.

Is this person shooting at a higher velocity with his cheater board? then yea, there is a problem, a safty problem. but thats the only problem i can see with cheater boards.

if you feel some huge injustice is done do you, then maybe you need to re evaluate your playing skill, maybe the problem is with you. So you can stop havin this happen.

and you know what, if it is that big of a problem well i hate to say it... but if you cant beat em... Join em.


What im saying is that, these cheater boards arent giving that much of an advantage, it may seem like it is bit it really isnt. You should be able to play against some one with an angel, with a phantom. I know i can, and it helps on the tourny field. If you are having that much of a problem with high ROF then get outta the kitchen.

[puckmaster]

I havnt read the whole thread, but i dont see why companies dont do what WDP did with the ir3's, and put the board in a tamper evident casing?

everybody acts like it is really easy to bounce a timmy. It is when your focused on bouncing it, but in a game, you have more things going on that will break your consentration.(the other team shooting there 18 a second at you for example) The only way you can bounce, or sweetspot, is if your pretty focused on it.

[hitech]

Originally posted by magman007
…and all I have to say is... WHO THE HELL REALLY CARES?

I do. Why? Because I enjoy and intellectual debate. I enjoy debates about tournament rules. I care less about who is doing it and how much of an advantage it gives them. Safety is also an issue I care about. The same techniques I outlined could be used to increase the velocity on markers that have an electronically controlled velocity.

BTW, Yes, I have had someone cheat against me and win a tournament that had a “large” cash award. But it wasn’t with an electronic marker.

[magman007]

well you see puckmaster... no one cares about that tamper proof casing in the angel world. our hot new thing to do is ironically, throw out the board, and put in a WAS board, 9vt battery, and then throw on an ace system.... No one cares about voiding their warrenties any more...

[puckmaster]

i dont know how to take that. it sounds sarcastic, yet serious.

[magman007]

no that was serious... sorry for the way it was written. Im not one to use smilies, but that above statement was all serious