Cheater Boards (How to Stop Them)

[truss]

it would completely bypass anything anybody would beable to do to a chip.it would give actual readings of how fast and how many bps its shooting.but i think it would be to bulky still.i was just tossing a idea out there that might work.

[Miscue]

Originally posted by truss
it would completely bypass anything anybody would beable to do to a chip.it would give actual readings of how fast and how many bps its shooting.but i think it would be to bulky still.i was just tossing a idea out there that might work.

Yes, but what does this have to do with the prevention of cheating? This does not establish a correlation between trigger pulls and bps.

[truss]

it whould give you a bps and fps reading.i think it would help with cheating in tournments.say somebody increases 20fps in a game or say they are shooting 25bps.you would know something was kinda fishy there.

[Miscue]

Originally posted by truss
it whould give you a bps and fps reading.i think it would help with cheating in tournments.say somebody increases 20fps in a game or say they are shooting 25bps.you would know something was kinda fishy there.

How do you know that they are actually shooting 20bps, but it hits 25bps? You've measured the bps that the gun is shooting, you've yet to record legitimate trigger pulls for comparison.

[speedyejl]

Obviously it doesn't since it doesn't replace the electronics. Its a deterent for players to NOT have cheating boards. Since players can do anything from using magnets in their gloves to activate the "cheat mode" the only way to test guns would to be to moinitor them during the game.

The penalties for this would be worse than getting a hot shot, their guns would be ejected from the tournament as is the case for current illegal markers and possibly them to.

With such an effective deterent as this barrel device no ones going to try to cross the line, and if they do theres a high chance if not certainty they would get caught.

Now for your last point Miscuse as I said earlier if they were shooting fast thanks to a turbo mode or bounce the time between shots would be indentical which would be pretty easy to notice on a computer.

[hitech]

Originally posted by Miscue
Yes, but what does this have to do with the prevention of cheating? This does not establish a correlation between trigger pulls and bps.

Originally posted by hitech
The biggest problem however, is what are you going to use as the criteria to define cheating?

[Miscue]

Originally posted by speedyejl
Obviously it doesn't since it doesn't replace the electronics. Its a deterent for players to NOT have cheating boards. Since players can do anything from using magnets in their gloves to activate the "cheat mode" the only way to test guns would to be to moinitor them during the game.

The penalties for this would be worse than getting a hot shot, their guns would be ejected from the tournament as is the case for current illegal markers and possibly them to.

With such an effective deterent as this barrel device no ones going to try to cross the line, and if they do theres a high chance if not certainty they would get caught.

Now for your last point Miscuse as I said earlier if they were shooting fast thanks to a turbo mode or bounce the time between shots would be indentical which would be pretty easy to notice on a computer.

[zaqwert6]

I got it, fool proof.....

I think every player should have an on board data acquisition system which records actual trigger pulls,shots fired and FPS and then sends them through a helmet mounted sat/com transmitter to sideline terminals monitored by a group of refs,1 for each player on the field,who can read the data in real time and determine any unlawful activity.Then if any is found he could "simply" enter a disable command back through the sat/com network shuting down the offending players marker and activate the red flashing strobe,also helmet mounted,notifying all in the proximity of the offense.

Simple.

Jay.

@Trademark/PatPend.

Oops, that's my bro's login. (RRFireblade)

[Miscue]

Originally posted by zaqwert6
I got it, fool proof.....

I think every player should have an on board data acquisition system which records actual trigger pulls...

HOW? The CPU has NO way of knowing if the input it receives has any correlation with a trigger being pulled one time. All it sees is that the line has gone high, or gone low. It has no idea what caused it.

[hitech]

Originally posted by speedyejl
The clamp would be as large as it needs to be to fit over most barrels which is extremely small. The instrument package would be smaller than your fist, possibly comparable to two handheld chronos lined up.

That would be HUGE. Anything that is more than three inches in diameter is NOT going to be acceptable. I’m sure there are those that wouldn’t find three inches acceptable.

Originally posted by speedyejl
The radars wouldn't interfere with each other. They emit a very low energy wave… (I've done exit shots simultaneously with a person next to me, no issues)

I’d like to see it work with two pointed roughly at each other 10 feet apart. I question whether it will work, and work reliably. But I guess it might.

Originally posted by speedyejl
Counting BPS? It wouldn't be hard at all to beef up the software just a tiny bit to calculate the equations needed.

I would think if it were that easy, the current handheld ones would. They would sell much better if they did.

Also, the cost isn’t the same as a mass-produced unit like the handheld radar chrony. These would be a VERY limited unit. The cost per unit would be MUCH greater.

[hitech]

Originally posted by Miscue
HOW?...

I don't think he was serious.

[RRfireblade]

Originally posted by Miscue


HOW? The CPU has NO way of knowing if the input it receives has any correlation with a trigger being pulled one time. All it sees is that the line has gone high, or gone low. It has no idea what caused it.

Obviously the Data/Acq would have it's own trigger sensor.

Are you trying to make this complicated?


Jay

[RRfireblade]

Originally posted by hitech


I don't think he was serious.

I can't believe most of these posts are "serious".

[Sir_Brass]

Re: Cheater Boards (How to Stop Them)

Originally posted by SlartyBartFast
Well, it's been raised that at least one cheater board has surfaced. I figure that the fact it's a WAS board is only coincidence. As I've said in other threads, it's so easy to reprogram or modify a microcontroller controlled board it's rediculous. All you need is a little patience to set yourself up with the required knowledge and equipemnt and the motivation to learn.

How can paintball tournaments stop and detect cheater boards? Considering factory teams are as likely to cheat as the next guys, requiring factory only boards isn't going to help. The factory just needs to produce some special boards for the tournament.

Testing is virtually imposible as well. After all, any number of secret codes could be employed to enable and disable the cheat modes.

The way I see it there's only one way to do it. Electronic markers need to be built with removable chips that can be replaced by tournament supervisors and identified with anti-tamper devices.

Additionally, source code would need to be released to a governing body that would analyse it to ensure it was legal and didn't hide any dubious functionality.

To ensure approved software is used, the guns would have to use a limited number of microprocessors. Blank chips could then be kept and flashed for the make and model of gun before being inserted and made tamper-proof.

trust a guy who's taken a semester of microprocessors: unless you have the pro-grade software, and a chip programmer, it is NOT easy to reprogram a micro. Especially if you're using something like a 20-pin 8051. You have to use software which costs alot, is not found on the bootleg market, and is only used by professionals or educational institutions. Also, you have to have knowledge not only of how to program, but how to program that specific processor for that specific board. There's alot that goes into the programming that is dependant upon board design and construction.

If someone goes to the length to reprogram the chip, then it'll be obvious in their playing skills b/c they'll have spent so much time trying to reprogram the thing, that they will not have had time to practice.

[RRfireblade]

Originally posted by Miscue


HOW? The CPU has NO way of knowing if the input it receives has any correlation with a trigger being pulled one time. All it sees is that the line has gone high, or gone low. It has no idea what caused it.

Well at least you didn't have a problem with the helmet mounted Sat/Com/Strobe system.