Cheater Boards (How to Stop Them)

[billmi]

Originally posted by manike


The difficulty is if people want to cheat, I see no cost effective and acceptable means of being able to catch all cheats at the moment. A sad issue but very true.

The way to do it is not cost effective, but is conceivable.

Prior to game start a field monitor is clipped onto the barrel of the player's paintgun.

The field monitor has a pressure pad that attaches with double sided adhesive to the front surface of the trigger. The wire from the pad to the monitor is taped down the side of the receiver.

The monitor chronos *every* shot, and if it detects a hot shot, or a shot that was not initiated by an increase and decrease of pressure on the face of the trigger, it sounds an alarm that can only be reset by a ref's key.

That's not horribly practical, not inexpensive to develop, but literally the only way to catch what is possible with trick software - to monitor *every* shot taken on the field.

See you on the field,
-Bill Mills

[manike]

How do you calibrate the force the pressure pad takes to register a shot with the force the trigger switch takes to register a shot? What if there is a difference? Most pressure pads I have 'felt' seem to take more force to activate than my electro gun triggers. You would almost need a two stage switch with the first 'sensing stage' to definitely be lighter than the second 'firing stage'.

Such a device is something I have been thinking about for years, I even discussed the possibility with PGI a while back.

But then what happens if you only partly pull the first stage... how long are you allowed for the activation of the second stage? If you don't activate it, can you have that as a 'shot in the bag?' I know someone who proved how silly such a rule could be circumnavigated using a rainmaker and his own board... But obviously there will be a time delay between activation of the pressure pad and the shot.

If you have to have a device that is fitted to every gun and calibrated to work with every gun you can bet the costs in skilled personel to fit and maintain these devices for an event would be expensive. Ultimately is the price to pay going to be worth it or footed by anyone that cares enough? Would the players accept it? I know I wouldn't want to have an extra pressure pad on the trigger of my gun and have to worry that it activates properly for every shot I fire...

[raehl]

Heh, I doubt that would ever happen...

You'd just give everyone the same marker that the league owned first - or maybe just require that everyone use the same marker or a very small number of approved markers.

- Chris

[SlartyBartFast]

Re: Heh, I doubt that would ever happen...

Originally posted by raehl
You'd just give everyone the same marker that the league owned first - or maybe just require that everyone use the same marker or a very small number of approved markers.

- Chris

That would be a huge investment. The tournament would have to purchase and maintain all the markers and backups required.

Something as simple as not allowing markers to be taken out of a specific area and requiring that they be worked in a specific area might be one step. That would also monitor mechanical cheats.

It's all just theorising until the manufacturers and leagues (and by extension the players) make it an issue.

[SlartyBartFast]

Originally posted by billmi
but literally the only way to catch what is possible with trick software - to monitor *every* shot taken on the field.

Have to say I agree with you on that point, but agree with Manike on the trigger sensing issue.

If you monitor fps and bps, does it matter how it's being produced?

[hitech]

Originally posted by SlartyBartFast
If you monitor fps and bps, does it matter how it's being produced?

That depends. Do you want to allow fullauto? If so, then no, it doesn't matter. If you do NOT want to allow fullauto, then sure it matters. If you are going to have a rule, it needs to be inforced.

[trains are bad]

For electros, I wish that the semi-only rule would be repealed. I'm all for a 13 bps full auto cap.

YAY! I thought I was the only one!

[845]

Limited paint would be dumb 2000 rounds a game for back players all the way.

[nicad]

go mechanical.. thats what I do.

1 pull, 1 shot.
1 shot, 1 kill. :)

[RRfireblade]

Utter useless sillyness.

(clicks "unsubscribe")

You all seem to have it figured out ,I'll just read it about it when the '04-'05 moddified rules book comes out.

Enjoy,

Jay.

[billmi]

Originally posted by nicad
go mechanical.. thats what I do.

Consider...

The NXL is made up of its member teams, of those who's team owners manufacture paintguns, 100% manufacture electros.

The NPPL tournaments are run by a company that makes electronic paintguns and no mechanical models.

The of the companies that own PSP, out of those that make maintguns, 100% manufacture electros.

In every case, the team owners have in interest in promoting electronic paintguns over mechanical, and making sure they are viewed as "the best" and thus what consumers will want to buy.

See you on the field,
-Bill Mills

[fallout11]

Okay, back to the only idea that's actually do-able:

Just limit each player to a fixed amount of walk-on ammo. Period.
You can share with your teammates, but when you're out, your out.
Time to learn a little fire discipline.

If you want to fire 25bps you're going to anyway, there's obviously nothing stopping you. But you'll just be off the field that much faster.

[raehl]

Limitted paint?

Limitted paint is actually WORSE for movement than unlimitted paint.

Why?

Because people are always taking pock shots, so they never reload, so their guns are always up.

Moves happen when people are reloading. Doesn't matter how fast your opponent is shooting, they still gotta reload sometime - in fact, the faster they shoot, the more often they have to reload, and the *MORE* often you have chances to move.

The key is to move when you're NOT getting shot at. Doesn't matter how fast your opponent's guns shoot then.


- Chris

[Meph]

Well no matter what option there is for cheater boards there's still some major problems.

The people that make these markers AND the boards are the same people that back the events with sponsorship.

The people that make the paint and sell the paint are not going to want to stop selling as much as they are.


When you have both manufacturer of marker and paint backing cheater boards............... what CAN you do?

[Brophog]

You sure your not on baseball's anti-steroid committee?