DO NOT ship paintball markers via OS postal Service PLEAESE MAKE THIS A STICKY

[Fixion]

Originally posted by Cryer
I've always hated USPS. They've always managed to screw important things up for me.

FedEx and UPS all the way!

I also hate USPS. They take forever to get any package to its destination. Once it took them 6 weeks to ship me a package from eastern Oregon to Portland (western oregon). But UPS (and FedEx) are awsome.

[cphilip]

Originally posted by Steelrat
The US Postal Service has every right to determine the mailability of certain items, and to create definitions of what those items are. Remember that DOT sets a minimum standard for safety, which the USPS can add upon ...Now, I agree that the Postmaster's and Inspector's interpretation of the rules are flawed, and I fully believe that taking it to a higher level will rectify the problem.

No they do not. they can specify methods and markings but they cannot superceed that without violation of interstate commerce laws. That they may not do. They can tack on all kinds of special labeling and charges and all that sort of thing but they cannot RESTRICT it and DENY it. That is stepping over thier bounds. And its illegal. The DOT sets no such limits on paintball markers in any way. I said that. And the ATF does not either. The only thing ATF regulates is Silencers made for paintball markers. In fear they are readily adaptable to Firearms. And all they do there is regulate them. They still allow them and allow shipment of them WITHOUT restrictions!

[cphilip]

By the way... I can ship hazardous materials though USPS if I chose to. But I must follow the restricted methods, packaging and labeling they chose to submit me to as long as that is within DOT regs. But I can still ship it. Its not forbidden mostly. Its restricted. Paintball markers are restricted by niether entity. According to that I cannot ship paintball makers AT ALL. And thats where it steps across the line of interfering in interstate commerce. It may indeed happen. Under the current climate. But it is illegal.

[cphilip]

Oh well looking back and re- reading my retorts I want to make it clear I did not think YOU pulled that out or your asre steelrat. I ment THEY pulled that definition out there Arse!

And also to clarify... I think They would be violating interstate commerce laws by Prohibition rather than restricting to a certain legal and clearly defined process of shipping. Thats what I mean here.

[cphilip]

Oh well looking back and re- reading my retorts I want to make it clear I did not think YOU pulled that out or your arse steelrat. I ment THEY pulled that definition out there arse!

And also to clarify... I think They would be violating interstate commerce laws by Prohibition rather than restricting to a certain legal and clearly defined process of shipping. Thats what I mean here.

[Steelrat]

Right, they arent prohibiting it. The whole sticking point seems to be the postmaster's belief that they did not ship the guns in accordance with postal regulations. Guns can be shipped, just under certain restrictions. The problem is that paintball guns arent firearms.

As far as the DOT regs, I wont argue it, since its not really pertinent to this conversation.

[sbpyro]

Wow I was waiting for something like this to pop up.
Being a resident in Mass. you tend to have to put up with a lot of beauracratic bull (Big Dig enuff said) I think this is definate case of the postmaster's interpretation of the rules. When I joined the paintball club of my hated college (the only things good about the place were the paintball club and my gf) we were told that the markers were classified as firearms and tanks classified as explosives.
Couple years later (many ppl go to college for 7 years
we were discussing the issue with the campus police (which are uniformed boston police) and they don't really have a classification for the paintball marker.
So a lot of this issue comes from ignorance to its classification and interpret it from what they see or it is called. I have a feeling the customer must have declared a value for the marker and called it a paintball gun.

I do remember some movement towards improving the image of the sport, and one of the things was to refer to them as markers not guns.

Just my rant

[cphilip]

Originally posted by Steelrat
Right, they arent prohibiting it. The whole sticking point seems to be the postmaster's belief that they did not ship the guns in accordance with postal regulations. Guns can be shipped, just under certain restrictions. The problem is that paintball guns arent firearms.

As far as the DOT regs, I wont argue it, since its not really pertinent to this conversation.

Oh one interesting thing I ran across last night. This was in the ATF site and it was pertaining to shipping firearms. REAL firearms with people using thier FFL's to ship to another FFL. It instructed the shipper to NOT write or label the package "Guns" or "Firearms". All the tracking and legal documents is done with the forms contained within and all. At least thats how it reads to me. No external marking are to be placed where the USPS or anyone else would see it! And they directly instruct the shipper to not label the package as to that it contains a firearm! Interesting isn't it? This is what I have been recommending to shippers of paintball markers. NO label is required that might call undue attention to your package and suspicion it was something it was not.

I also ran across some direct exemptions including black powder rifles. They seem to be excluded! In fact I had wondered about this because I was at Sams Club the other day and low and behold they were selling black powder muzzle loaders in Sams! Now I was wondering why just these and not others. And from what I can tell they are not as "Highly Regulated" as other firearms are. Some sort of reduced status that I had noticed and all but still don't quite understand.

[cphilip]

Originally posted by sbpyro
Couple years later (many ppl go to college for 7 years
we were discussing the issue with the campus police (which are uniformed boston police) and they don't really have a classification for the paintball marker.

Our campus strictly forbids them. Not as firearms but as a item not allowed in dorms. And since we are our own municipality we have our own police that can decide what to do if one is found. It would not be a violation of legal standing but one of contractual standing and enforced by student court. It might result in you having to go pick the marker up at the police dept and ship it home... if you used it to do vandalism that would be chargable offese of course and it could range all the way to expulsion from the dorms for breach of contract.

[sbpyro]

Originally posted by cphilip


Our campus strictly forbids them. Not as firearms but as a item not allowed in dorms. And since we are our own municipality we have our own police that can decide what to do if one is found. It would not be a violation of legal standing but one of contractual standing and enforced by student court. It might result in you having to go pick the marker up at the police dept and ship it home... if you used it to do vandalism that would be chargable offese of course and it could range all the way to expulsion from the dorms for breach of contract.

I do have to add this little bit of info. The club's policy on having markers on campus was that you are not suppose to have them on campus, if you were caught with it the club will not be able to help you and you were warned about it. This too was interpret diffrently by people. (ie a floor monitor (sorry don't know the correct term for this person seeing that I was off campus) ran into one of my friends dorm room grab the tippmann and shot a couple of rounds down the hallway (some thing we did not condone)
we tended to warn people about behavior like this but that is all you can do.

On a counter point I know for a fact that UMass amherst had a paintball field, I'm not sure what the policy was with markers on campus. But seeing how the team stored their equipment it looked like a out of sight out of mind thing.

I think most ppl in college tend to interpret the rules as don't do anything stupid and you won't get in trouble. But I believe most campus would have you thrown out of the dorms for such an infraction.

[paint magnet]

Originally posted by cphilip
I also ran across some direct exemptions including black powder rifles. They seem to be excluded! In fact I had wondered about this because I was at Sams Club the other day and low and behold they were selling black powder muzzle loaders in Sams! Now I was wondering why just these and not others. And from what I can tell they are not as "Highly Regulated" as other firearms are. Some sort of reduced status that I had noticed and all but still don't quite understand.

They probably allow this because of the fact that you don't turn on the 6:00 news every night and hear of how someone was killed in a drive-by shooting with a .50 muzzleloading blackpowder rifle.

Unfortunately, you do turn on the news every night and hear about someone getting shot and killed by some idiot who heard his favorite cookie-cutter n...I mean "african american" rapper boasting about "capping people with his 9" [ generally referring to the standard 9x19 mm round or a firearm of this caliber], being in a gang and performing various other illegal and immoral acts and then describing them in explicit detail.
Or about some piece of terrorist scum who has been brainwashed into thinking he's going to get to bang 70 virgins in heaven if he kills innocent people. I realize I'm beginning to ramble and get off topic, but the fact is guns aren't dangerous, people are.

[/end rant] *steps off soapbox*

[doc_Zox]

Blackpowder "guns" are not regulated. They are exempt from most gun laws. No 4473 form to fill out, heck you can buy them on the web from Cabellas:
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/te...ainCatcat20712

in Monkey county MD, a paintball marker IS a gun:

[DiRTyBuNNy]

I don't know about you guys...but whenever I send a paintball marker via any kind of Postal service (USPS, UPS, or FED EX) I always label them as "Pneumatic tool". i may be misleading...but it's never hurt me before...

[shartley]

Originally posted by DiRTyBuNNy
I don't know about you guys...but whenever I send a paintball marker via any kind of Postal service (USPS, UPS, or FED EX) I always label them as "Pneumatic tool". i may be misleading...but it's never hurt me before...