Interesting PBN thread on the HammerHead

[fallout11]

It's funny that this whole "Better Barrel" arguement has come up again.

I recently bought another paintball gun (or marker, or projector, whatever...call it what you will).
And, to my horror, found that the STOCK barrel shot just fine.

Yep, it is just a barely-ported 14" aluminum tube, and not even very well finished on the bore.

But it'll hit a coffee-can lid 5 times out of 6 at 20 yards, which is about all one can reasonably expect for any barrel on any gun.

Most money spent on barrels is, IMHO, a waste.
And I've done it myself.....

[thei3ug]

Brass shoots Best.

Anyone else says otherwise is falling into marketing hype.

;P

[Sir_Brass]

Originally posted by thei3ug
Brass shoots Best.

Anyone else says otherwise is falling into marketing hype.

;P

Absolutely. Since accuracy out of the barrel is determined by paint and barrel, the most accurate barrel I've shot top quality paint through was a brass barrel. They may be 'heavy', but with a full hopper, or heck, just with a halo alone, you'll never notice the weight increase.

[GT]

Brass barrels= ol' school hype. Come on guys I thought you were smarter than that....

[Muzikman]

A tube made of any solid material with an ID of about .68 that is straight and afixes tightly to your gun is the best barrel.

[hitech]

The reason people think that certain barrels, materials, gimmicks etc. improve accuracy is because they do NOT test the barrel/gimmick. They slap on a different barrel and fire away. It shoots more accurate and they think it’s better. I can give you things to do that WILL increase accuracy. YES, “I”, the true non-believer, said I could increase accuracy, or at least the appearance of it. What kind of magic is this? VELOCITY. The new barrel is shooting higher (or lower, depending) and it makes it appear to shoot better. How many people shoot over a chrono when comparing barrels? Does anyone?

[ej_y4]

When will pbnation grow up? everyone gets flamed if they challenge what the over all opinion on that site is.

[GT]

Originally posted by Muzikman
A tube made of any solid material with an ID of about .68 that is straight and afixes tightly to your gun is the best barrel.

hell yea!

[Temo Vryce]

Originally posted by Muzikman
I am looking for it, but Tom stated that the spin on a ball has to reach some ungodly number (20,000RPMs)or something to have any affect on the ball. There is a thread about it out there, and I will find it.

EDIT:
http://www.automags.org/forums/showt...&threadid=8954

I'm trying to keep this civilized here so don't get too upset with me. I ran through that thread and there was no where that I could see that Tom said that Rifling didn't work nor did spining the ball not work. The point that I'm trying to make that everyone seems to be missing is that a rifled barrel will work "just as well" as a smooth bore barrel. This does not mean that rifled barrels don't work. In my experience a rifled barrel works better, but that's my experience. People look that Tom's note and take them to be the 10 comandments handed to Mosses from God (no offence Tom, I love the fact that you take the time to do this stuff). But people are misunderstanding the information given.

If Tom said that an X-mag didn't show any marked improvement in accuaracy over the E-mag, would you say that the X-Mag didn't work and advise anyone not to buy one? No I understand that this is like comparing apples to oranges but try to see my point. Riffling works just as well as smooth bore. For some it works better for some it doesn't it's a matter of preference and in the end the only thing that really matters is what works for you.

EDIT: Ok so I don't know the difference between Noah Mosses.

[Lohman446]

Here's the deal - we would all like to see comprehensive barrel tests - not "I put this barrel on my marker and it shot better" or things like that.

The word gun vise comes into effect here - over chronos with measured distances, consistant paint, you get the idea.

Might the hammerhead barrel be better than others - sure there may be somethign that the rifling does other than spin a ball. And yes, I think the discussions in deep blue on vortex shedding and fluid dynamics explain the physics of why spinning does not work - though they are so far over my head that I am kind of just reading conclusions.

BTW - brass barrels are heavy, they stabilizer a marker to some degree and my very well appear to improve accuracy, though I doubt they will in a gun vise. But this may be a point not taken by many. Although I would like to see the test, in the end for you, it whatever barrel you beleive shoots best in your hands. I have had days that I needed to blame soemthing for my lack of skill, so would switch barrels, its amazing the amount of barrels you can purchase when you just won't admit you can't shoot.

[Sir_Brass]

I will say with alot of confidence that I believe that the best barrel is the PPS brass barrel. Now, I'm not saying other barrels won't shoot paint straight, as it's a combination of barrel and paint-to-barrel match.

However, no pball gun I've shot has had near the accuracy as my blazer, and I attribute that to the barrel design. Maybe it's the widgets that keep paint from rolling down the barrel if it's small, or maybe it's the eliptical honing, or whatever. All I know is that there's something about PPS's barrels that makes me feel like they are very good and very accurate for a wide range of paint.

Go with whatever barrel you feel like going with. I'm sticking with my PPS brass barrel. And when I get enough $$ saved up, I'll get another PPS brass barrel for my sniper. And then my barrel shopping days will finally be over.

[hitech]

Originally posted by Lohman446
I will doubt that you can tell me the outcome of a barrel without testing it.

We can because there isn't anything it can do to increase accuracy.

[Severe]

Originally posted by Temo Vryce

... take them to be the 10 comandments handed to Noah from God ...

Sorry, I just got a chuckle out of that! Had to point it out!

Someone better recall all those bibles and change that ASAP!

Steve

[Muzikman]

Umm, I don't think anyone is saying the barrel will not work, just that it does not work any better. Tests have shown that the extra holes and/or the rifling in the barrel or any other little gimmick that someone comes up with just does not make it work any better.

I find it odd that you would criticize people for taking Tom's word as the word of gospel, but at the same time buy into hype. Tom went through a lot more work and tests than anyone else (or at least anyone else that is willing to share their results) to kill the hype. But when people believe him they get criticized for following blindly. Yet people who follow the hype of many of the products out there, who's performance is based on "Well, we tried it and it works better" philosophy don't. I mean come on, yes, one might feel that a product or mod works better than another and that is fine, let those people spend the big bucks on the product, it doesn't hurt me any.

As for misunderstanding Tom's posts and data. I think this about sums it up;

"Based on this data we believe round paintballs are too light and have lousy aerodynamics to expect any more accuracy than what we are currently getting."

Does this mean that a spiral ported or rifle barrel will not work at all, no, it simply means that it will not work any better.

EDIT:
BTW, I am not upset, a good debate can be healthy:)

Originally posted by Temo Vryce


I'm trying to keep this civilized here so don't get too upset with me. I ran through that thread and there was no where that I could see that Tom said that Rifling didn't work nor did spining the ball not work. The point that I'm trying to make that everyone seems to be missing is that a rifled barrel will work "just as well" as a smooth bore barrel. This does not mean that rifled barrels don't work. In my experience a rifled barrel works better, but that's my experience. People look that Tom's note and take them to be the 10 comandments handed to Noah from God (no offence Tom, I love the fact that you take the time to do this stuff). But people are misunderstanding the information given.

If Tom said that an X-mag didn't show any marked improvement in accuaracy over the E-mag, would you say that the X-Mag didn't work and advise anyone not to buy one? No I understand that this is like comparing apples to oranges but try to see my point. Riffling works just as well as smooth bore. For some it works better for some it doesn't it's a matter of preference and in the end the only thing that really matters is what works for you.

[hitech]

Originally posted by Temo Vryce
I ran through that thread and there was no where that I could see that Tom said that Rifling didn't work nor did spinning the ball not work.

He said that to me personally. He built a device to spin a paintball up to 10k RPM and then fire it. He let it spin long enough to insure the fill was up to speed also. It did not improve the accuracy.

He probably has never posted it. Very few people believe him and he has tired of the "battle". I've taken on the cause, but I tire...