Interesting PBN thread on the HammerHead

[Muzikman]

Originally posted by hitech


He said that to me personally. He built a device to spin a paintball up to 10k RPM and then fire it. He let it spin long enough to insure the fill was up to speed also. It did not improve the accuracy.

He probably has never posted it. Very few people believe him and he has tired of the "battle". I've taken on the cause, but I tire...

Actually in the thread I posted, he does talk about this.

"In order to test this properly we actually developed a gun that spun the barrel, with the ball in it, up to 30,000 RPM's and then shot the ball out. In this way we knew the ball and the fill were completely up to speed when it left the barrel. We had visions of a spinning barrel paintgun that would make that high speed turbo wine! Unfortunately this didn't improve the accuracy because the ball is still too light."

[hitech]

Originally posted by Muzikman
Actually in the thread I posted, he does talk about this.

"In order to test this properly we actually developed a gun that spun the barrel, with the ball in it, up to 30,000 RPM's..."

I stand (well, sit actually) corrected!

[thei3ug]

yah, i was joking about the whole brass thing. that's what the smiley was for.

i like heavy barrels because i like my gun front heavy... so dur, when i YANK on the trigger and pull my entire setup, that and the recoil won't knock me off target.

you suckers with your lightweight barrels and your stiffis and ULE mags... good look hittin me when i'm dancing in a leather miniskirt and tubetop on top of the right snake.

seriously, i'm with muzik. this is a big deal why?

[Miscue]

This is what I don't understand. You have a 2" control bore, and then the tip is rifled. Wait a second... doesn't the tip have a larger ID than the bore? So what the heck is the point of the rifling, assuming if it did have an effect (which it doesn't)?

[fallout11]

Oh, yeah, the rifling in the tip....
It "spins" the air around the ball. D

Yeah, right.

[Dubstar112]

My barrel uses a supercharger with nitrogen injection to achieve the most accurate groupings you will ever see. Its like shooting ''q-tips''.

well... its more like a turbo charger...

[Miscue]

So we have a 2" tube made out of, and this is SO important, space-aged aircraft metal that's been magnetized to make the ball hover... followed by more space-aged tubing that the ball doesn't even get to touch (and if it does, something went wrong).

I don't understand paying, what is it, $150 or so for 2" of metal tubing? Now I can understand buying it because you really like how it looks, but other than that... it's silly.

If I had the money, I'd get one of them and powder test the sucker and see how the equator of the ball is coming into contact with it in comparison to another barrel. And... do a multi-hundred ball sample at 300fps at various distances... do a linear regression/statistical analysis and compare to another metal tube. Video tape the whole thing... I already know the results will be the same, because this test has already been done before.

Their efficiency claims are easy... switch barrels and see if you have to increase velocity to hit 300fps. Their little video with the turbulence rhetoric and special port holes is a bunch of crap because the ball is ahead of the air blast... because the ball is popped out like a cork.

[Dubstar112]

I just want a heavy steel barrel wiht no porting. then engrave magnatron and sell it for a fortune :)

[Lohman446]

Originally posted by hitech


We can because there isn't anything it can do to increase accuracy.

I'm not trying to be a jerk on this - though without a doubt I am going to come out as such, I apologize in advance.

You are more likely wrong here than you would think. Let me restate this - nothing that has been tried and marketed up to this point, other than paint to barrel match, has proven to increase accuracy.

Why do I say that. If I had told you in the early 90's that one of the hottest ideas would be a barrel kit, two piece with a bunch of different sizes from .680 to .690 we would have all mentioned that .01 is a VERY small measurement, unlikely to have much effect (maybe).

You cannot prove a negative - you can tell me rifling doesn't work, and prove it, ditto porting. You cannot tell me that somewhere someone won't come up wiht some off the wall idea (like changing the automag early design prototype to blow forward) that is a total revolution on where we are coming from. You cannot tell me with certainty that someone wont find a better material that will improve barrels (like using nitrogen rather than CO2). There are ideas out there that you cannot foresee. The barrel does effect accuracy, accuracy is not to so small a number that increasing it becomes impossible, as such I can make changed to the barrel to increase accuracy... unfortunately for my wallet I just don't know what those changes are. I do know what they are not.

[Miscue]

Any small difference a barrel can make is dwarfed by overwhelming outside forces working against accuracy.

If you shoot the PERFECT shot. Ideal speed, spin, whatever... and this barrel can do this... outside forces will still make it zig-zag off course to the point where that 'perfect' ball is no different from one that is slightly imperfect. And... with no distinction between a perfect or imperfect ball, it doesn't even make sense to talk about how well the barrel works.

You can launch it exactly the same way every time, but you are shooting it into a pachinko machine... and that's the problem. No barrel makes the pachinko machine go away. Accuracy is a crap shoot no matter how you look at it.

[striker]

paintballtimes.com did a barrel test awhile back, using vices, and chronoed the velocities, etc... Check it out.

http://www.paintballtimes.com/2001test/index.htm

[Temo Vryce]

The article makes some good points but I believe that all the barrels tested were smooth bore.

[cledford]

Originally posted by Lohman446


I'm not trying to be a jerk on this - though without a doubt I am going to come out as such, I apologize in advance.

You are more likely wrong here than you would think. Let me restate this - nothing that has been tried and marketed up to this point, other than paint to barrel match, has proven to increase accuracy.

Why do I say that. If I had told you in the early 90's that one of the hottest ideas would be a barrel kit, two piece with a bunch of different sizes from .680 to .690 we would have all mentioned that .01 is a VERY small measurement, unlikely to have much effect (maybe).

You cannot prove a negative - you can tell me rifling doesn't work, and prove it, ditto porting. You cannot tell me that somewhere someone won't come up wiht some off the wall idea (like changing the automag early design prototype to blow forward) that is a total revolution on where we are coming from. You cannot tell me with certainty that someone wont find a better material that will improve barrels (like using nitrogen rather than CO2). There are ideas out there that you cannot foresee. The barrel does effect accuracy, accuracy is not to so small a number that increasing it becomes impossible, as such I can make changed to the barrel to increase accuracy... unfortunately for my wallet I just don't know what those changes are. I do know what they are not.

I posted this in another current "barrel" thread - but it bears saying here as well. In my experience (and I'm willing to stipulate for ALL other barrels) THEY ARE 100% ACCURATE, that is until the ball leaves the bore!!!! At that point (the ball exits) no barrel WILL EVER touch said ball again and therefore CANNOT affect that balls flight in any way. This is a simple and immutable fact - one that no "new development" save magic, or wire-guided paintballs could change. Your argument is invalid

-Calvin

[Muzikman]

Until they change the ball it's self. I think that they reached the edge of barrel technology. You talk about barrel kit's being a big step in barrel technology. No it was not, going back to when I started playing (92) you could get barrels in different IDs. All the barrel kit did was save you money and space. Instead of having 6 different barrels at $80 a pop, you have 6 inserts that total $300. Matching barrel to paint is nothing new, what is new is the selection of balls. It use to be a few manufactures that made a few different balls. There really was no need for more than three barrel sizes.

[SlartyBartFast]

The absolute cutting edge in barrel technology given the size, weight, shape, and properties of paintballs is:

A smooth tube!

Everything else is just the cutting edge method of separating fools and money.