To Tom Kaye..... unleash the HAMMER

[JEDI]

Originally posted by Tyger
Random thought.

Could it be that the ROF war is based on not wanting to be "dropped" out of the game?

Hang on, let me say this. If the players who have based thier game / style on high ROF suddenly have to re-learn the game to snapshooting and movement (limited paint), they're basically dropped from the face of the game.

So to stay "in" the game, they have to get higher ROF guns, higher ROF play, and they can then exclude all the players who can't keep up on the trigger, but may excell / exceed thier skills elsewhere?

Does that make sense?

-Tyger

No, that does not really make sense. Snap shooting, and good movement are the skills earned by a good player. Relying on mass amounts of paint, is a cructh to a not-so-good player. Unlimited use of paint is an aspect of the game. Whether or not you choose to rely on it %100 is the difference between a good baller, and a newb with a marker.
Mech guns only, is not changing anything about tourney ball. Limited paint is. The author of this thread, as far as I know, is not attempting to derive some new style of play.

[dinger]

Originally posted by cphilip
They just shoot indescriminantly and brag about HOW MANY POD they use!

i remember seeing an ad for the egg about this guy saying "i shoot 2700 balls a game.. and the Evolution II is the only one that keeps up!"

he thinks hes bragging about his hopper... when really he sucks weiner because thats 2699 that was wasted! TALK ABOU NO SKILL

and for those of you with emags... you dont need to take out the battery... just find a way not to remove the key, or take off the switch from mech/electro.


moo

[hardr0ck68]

Err, even without a paint limmit it would still be the best ting out there in my oppionion

[Muzikman]

Originally posted by JEDI
Ahhhhhh!!!... Limited paint...NOT TOPIC OF DISCUSSION ...head going to explode!!! Spock...what... the hell...is going on here?

Drop the limited paint idea. If unlimited paint is not your bag, then respectfully bow out of this one. No one shows up to your goofy rec ball games and says "Limited camo, too much camo takes away from the skill." "I mean, being hidden is sooo overrated"

STEPS TO IMMEDIATELY KILL ANY GOOD IDEA:
STEP ONE: come up with good idea.
STEP TWO: Post good idea on AO

Why are you so negative man? No one has killed anyones idea. The title of this thread is not "Mechanical marker tournament, we don't want your suggestions". I think it's a valid suggestion. If the organizer/promoter does not like the idea, then don't use it, but if people do not suggest ideas or comments, then what is the point of even starting this thread?

I think Wyn and Josh ask valid points... How is this going to happen. People are going to come in here and say it's a great idea, and it is, but you do have to be a realist some times.

As a suggestion, why not have a pump only division:)

EDIT:
I think Rocco's suggestion about some points awarded based on the amount you use is an interesting and different idea.

[Ronin 23]

Originally posted by JEDI

The author of this thread, as far as I know, is not attempting to derive some new style of play.

What I'm driving at is this....

1. Have games predicated on movements and angles. Something that more talented players wouldn't balk at to begin with.

2. Have the succeeding generation of younger players truly understand the game and not to buy into the hype.

3. It's a SHOOTING SKILL game. I would rather have one old fart who can snap shoot an advancing player at the fifty than a young guy who needs to put out a rope to achieve the same thing.

4. Although the 'limited paint' issue is intriguing, I would want this whole concept of MECHS ONLY to be the main thrust of this thread.

If these things are the "points of the game" that are highlighted instead of the BLING-BLING 30 BPS MARKER, then we would truly be a sport driven by talent and skill instead of state-of-the-art products.

As in any sport....the beauty is in the motion, explosiveness and intrinsic skill required from the best players that Joe Regular Player doesn't possess.

[Tyger]

Originally posted by JEDI

Unlimited use of paint is an aspect of the game. Whether or not you choose to rely on it %100 is the difference between a good baller, and a newb with a marker.
Mech guns only, is not changing anything about tourney ball. Limited paint is.

But that's what I mean. If you remove that "Aspect" of the game, you pretty much crumble a lot of these player's gameplans. It's a mechanical way to limit paint consumption, yes.

I look at it this way. When the Pam Am ran limited paint, some teams were accused of "hiding" pods on the field of play to get more an advantage. This tells me that they will go to extremes to shoot more paint. Thus my original idea. They feel 'threatened' by limiting thier paint consumption.

And as such will do all they can to discredit the concept of limited paint for fear they will not be able to play competitively if that's the accepted style of play. It's becoming elite by excluding the rest, if you get my drift.

If not, I'll go back to my pizza....

-Tyger

[JEDI]

Originally posted by Muzikman



Why are you so negative man? No one has killed anyones idea. The title of this thread is not "Mechanical marker tournament, we don't want your suggestions". I think it's a valid suggestion. If the organizer/promoter does not like the idea, then don't use it, but if people do not suggest ideas or comments, then what is the point of even starting this thread?

I'm sorry if I come across as negative. Thats not my intention. I just, in some way take offense to people always pushing the limited paint idea as soon as a tournament comes up. In my opinion, speedball thrives on the million miles an hour style of play. It needs the ropes of paint flying through the air. You say mass amounts of paint limits skill. I say 32bps coming my way hones MY skill right to the finest edge.
Tourney ball, "speedball" is fast. A guy can move on you, and be in and out of your site in half a second. You're not going to get some guy doing the superman into the snake with "plink - plink - plink". You're gonna scream your head off, and send gellatinous fury his way, making him wish he was lower than the carpet he's lying on.

If thats not your game, then you are not interested in Tournament style ball. You're looking for something else... which is ok too.

[Smoke]

I must say, a limited paint mech only tourney would be AWESOME! At Blackrain Paintball I'd usually go through a hopper in 6 games, and I'd average at least 2 kills a game. This was all done with my RTP, and I'd love to do it in a tourney because I already have limited paint experience.

Also, anybody who says that mechs can't throw enough paint.....obviously hasn't seen me shoot.

[JEDI]

Originally posted by Tyger

I look at it this way. When the Pam Am ran limited paint, some teams were accused of "hiding" pods on the field of play to get more an advantage. This tells me that they will go to extremes to shoot more paint. Thus my original idea. They feel 'threatened' by limiting thier paint consumption.

And as such will do all they can to discredit the concept of limited paint for fear they will not be able to play competitively if that's the accepted style of play. It's becoming elite by excluding the rest, if you get my drift.

If not, I'll go back to my pizza....

-Tyger

Sure, to that extent I agree with you. That team is doing an injustice to the teams that feel they can still compete with the limited paint in place. They should not sign up. But to say its a crutch (not you) or a lack of skill is incorrect. Its a valid aspect of a game wich people have come to love. Its part of their arsenal. If they feel the need to dump a little more paint in a given scenario, and it gets the job done, its just as respectable as any other method.
I'd love to see a football team win by touch downs alone, but squeeking a win by with a feild goal is still a win.

[cphilip]

I brought up Limiting paint right here because it was the Authors stated goal and wish to put the skill back into the game.

And I felt the two things going hand in hand had a better chance to do that. I believe they go together towords that goal so well that I made an issue out of it. I see many people also believe its a key element. I believe todays Mechanical have an ability to still put out enough paint that they alone will not do it. They will need the assistance of limiting paint to achieve an effective measurable result the Author wants. And many people want. That was my point. And there is no better time to interject that than when formulating the entire concept.

[Wc Keep]

i think that a mech only tourney would be awesome. but i have to agree with jedi here. limiting the amount of paint a player gets to use is not cool. i feel its more exciting to see the ropes of paint instead of the snap shots when players are going to make a move. knowing when to move with a rope of paint coming your way takes a lot of skill.

and jedi is right no one is going to superman into the snake with plink plink plink coming at them.

[cphilip]

I think this was about change. And your not proposing to change anything at all if your not open to the idea of limiting to a reasonable amount of paint. Pleanty of play can occur and ropes of paint with the amounts proposed. Its about changing the play of the game. Its not about keeping it the same at all. Thats not the concept. Many games now a days get you off the field with less than five pod and a hopper. And there are plenty of ropes of paint in those games. Better timed and placed ones. If you want to play unlimited ropes of paint you already got that. What change is that? Fact is you don't need them. You waste more than 99% of that. What team wants to move with three guys shooing indesciminantly with "Wish and prayer" balls filling the air. Shooing a lane consistently and with purpose can be done with three or four pods for the length of a game. We do it all the time. Your exagerating the need for paint. Those moves to the snake would still be challenged with plenty of fire. And those moves by your team with plenty of fire. But coordinated communicated suppressive. Not constant suppressive in case they move. Thats the point it got past with unlimited paint. And its often overused and requires little skill to do it.

If I had my way and could dictate it would be three pods! But I didn't feel there would be enough support for that. And so I proposed a compromise number I felt most players could live with and industry could support.

[Ronin 23]

Originally posted by Wc Keep
i feel its more exciting to see the ropes of paint instead of the snap shots when players are going to make a move. knowing when to move with a rope of paint coming your way takes a lot of skill.

and jedi is right no one is going to superman into the snake with plink plink plink coming at them.

I beg to differ. Examine the proposition that if you're dumping paint at a voluminous level to achieve something that is attainable through fewer and better-placed shots, then A MORE SKILLED SHOOTER IS ABLE TO ACCOMPLISH THE SAME GOAL WITH LESS PAINT, RIGHT?

Second, IT TAKES INFINITELY MORE SKILL TO SNAP SHOOT THAN SENDING A ROPE OUT. Just try posting on a target 30 feet away, send a rope and hit it....then try coming out quickly in a snap shot and hit the same target....when you've completed both, let me know then which one is more difficult.

But if you can combine an easily attainable task (dumping paint) with a more difficult one (snap shooting), wouldn't that define you as a better player?

I do accept Jedi's position that it is indeed more difficult to come out when there's a tight string of paint coming your way. But by the same token, if he's dumping paint, he'll have to reload sooner and thus run out of paint earlier. AND THAT TOO IS A WEAKNESS THAT CAN BE EXPLOITED. I hate to go 'eastern' on you but for every YIN, there's a YANG.

[ScatterPlot]

I'd love a tourney like this, I just hope I can make it.
[hopes for a northern southeast location]

[Wc Keep]

i know it takes more skill to snap shoot someone out than it does rope someone down. but if you are trying to organize a tournament and advertise it to the masses, ie put it on television, than you need to have the most exciting things going on. people are going to wanna see more of the good bunker moves and great movement on the field while narrowly avoiding being shot than someone just walk off the field because they were just snapped out.