ok, I ask you. Whats with all the "speed" threads?

[-=Squid=-]

Ok, over the last week I have seen SO many threads regarding mandatory speed restrictions. Tell me, is there something I DONT know here because this is the ONLY forum going crazy with the idea.

I just dont see why we should do it. All the reasons I see are easily cancelled out, especially the fact that some people cant afford it. I am 16, no job, and my parents rarely give me money for paintball, and I go through as much paint as I need, which is usually a lot. Money management folks, why should paintball change because some people dont play as religiously as others?

Safety issues? When has there EVER been a problem with safety due to speed? The ONLY one I can think of is
the Lasoya incident, which was settled that he was cheating, not a speed issue.

On top of those reasons not to, what about cost? You CANT ban force feed loaders, it would put odyssey out of business, and tick a LOT of people off who payed $130 for a HALO. It would be VERY hard to cap markers, because most boards dont have the feature, there you go, another lump of money out of the players pockets.

So, without flaming ( I know how AO is) tell my WHY we should cap them? Please, dont throw me hackneyed things which ive already explained above.

In MY opinion, speed is here to stay. To me, its a change which I welcome with open arms. Right now, I like the image paintball has, and the speed of markers makes it more interesting to watch for non-ballers. If I wanted to see people tat tat tat at each other I would watch recball, and I feel that people who dont like the speed of expensive markers should either try one themselves or play rec. And because people can be pretty defensive, im not bashing rec. At all. Dont even comment on it.

So, what do you think?

- Master Nick Blick

[Woogie12]

I agree with you completely. IMO, the only effective and cost effective way to cap these markers in tournies would be to make everybody use revvies. This would still cause an uproar. If one series, say NPPL or PSP, were to enforce a cap on markers, most of the teams would just jump straight to the other series. I just don't think a BPS cap would go over too well.

[GT]

2 reasons:

1. dynamic game play;
2. greater potential for tourney growth

[teufelhunden]

Originally posted by gtrsi
2 reasons:

1. dynamic game play;
2. greater potential for tourney growth

Play isn't dynamic now?

Tourneys aren't growing?

[Brophog]

We can ban force feed loaders. We did it once already.

Oh yeah, then somehow the ban was pulled so that Odyssey could get in the market.

Your not bringing anything new to the table here. The reason we have so many posts on speed is the fact so many people keep doing what you are doing and making a new post.

And these threads are popping up on other, smaller boards. It has been happening for the past couple of months.

The fact remains that people like the game where it is, and paintball is still getting faster. That is one of the reasons for the talk of some form of restrictions.

Your talk of playing rec vs tourney is something I have heard repeatedly this week, and must protest. Tourney styles always filter down to rec. Markers, technique, clothing....it all filters down eventurally. Part of the beef is that rec players are now being shot at with the high ROF. They don't necessarily want that. For many it is ruining the game for them. Plus, it is one thing to be shot at in a tourney with those guns. It kinda comes with the territory, always has. However, its another to be overshot with these markers from a 10 year old with an inchy trigger finger.

The polls on this site seem to suggest that there is a definite want for some kind of maximum ROF control. I stand by the idea that the ROF used now is the maximum ROF for any breakable distance a paintball will travel, provided the person shot is not using excessive padding or excessive clothing. One of my arguments is that there is no longer an inherent advantage to shooting faster. So why bother? You are just inviting these safety arguments to take place if you continue to sell and manufacture markers that are faster than they need be. One day, someone outside of the sport will step in and set restrictions for us. I'd rather set the restrictions from inside the paintball community, and I feel that a maximum ROF would be a good step towards keeping outsiders from undue legistature. The rate of fire (somewhere between 15-20) that I and several others are proposing is still very high, and would not change the sport in any way.

The fact that there are questionable triggers and marker setups hurts us from an integrity standpoint. One of the reasons full auto and other "assisted" methods are not allowed is that they are deemed unsafe by insurance and outsiders to the sport. I feel that by working around these protocols by using questionable triggers and circuit boards/programming that outsiders to the sport may lose faith in our ability to self-regulate. Self-regulation has been what has stood between paintball and outside sources ever since the beginning. Our use of chronos, BBD, and full face masks have saved us from undue legislation. I would hope that a reasonable BPS limit would be able to do the same.

I maintain my belief that the players can control the ROF and keep the sport safe. However, the past 4 years, the markers have rapidly gained in speed, and players have gotten much younger. That's not a real good combination to have. We have jumped *almost* 10 bps in the last 5 years!! Even when semi's came into the market, the pumps were still faster. It took a long time for semi's to be faster than pumps, and the gap still wasn't that big. We are now seeing HUGE gaps in rate of fire between the different marker segments, and I think that alarms some people.

I don't think it would be as big of a deal if the sport was more segmented into classes. As it stands, we're still one big open class. This, as much as anything, constitutes the debate currently going on.

[MayAMonkeyBeYourPinata]

The only reason that a cap makes any sense, is because it is so hard to control cheaters. Or at least the ones who are cheating, by programming there board to have some crazy bounce etc..

But the fact is eventually people could just as easily have a little button hidden somewhere, that turns up or off the cap.

[GT]

Originally posted by teufelhunden
Play isn't dynamic now?
Tourneys aren't growing?

Not at the rate I have in mind. I get so excited when I think of the possiblities of truly bridging the rec tourney gap...alas, if all you see is 1% of the market you miss the other 99% of the big picture.

I don't think it would be as big of a deal if the sport was more segmented into classes.

I have said this millions of times. There is a boatload of money to be made in other segments of tourny play. The question is who is going to get the balls up to start such play.

jb

[DiSoRdeR]

People now days only care about ROF. Do you ever see people saying about how to be more accurate? Well may be some times lol but mostly its just about what or who has the most ROF. They seem to think ROF=Pro material. They watch people in tournaments with high ROF, and imitate what they see. Hay Im just happy with a plane old mech, Ill probablly never go electro. Simpley dont want a high ROF, More ROF=More spent on paint. Spray and Pray tactics seem to be growing, what happened to one shot one kill? lol

[oldsoldier]

Well, I think that having different classes for tourneys (i.e. mechanical, pump, etc). This would kill this whole debate.

[-=Squid=-]

Originally posted by DiSoRdeR
People now days only care about ROF. Do you ever see people saying about how to be more accurate? Well may be some times lol but mostly its just about what or who has the most ROF. They seem to think ROF=Pro material. They watch people in tournaments with high ROF, and imitate what they see. Hay Im just happy with a plane old mech, Ill probablly never go electro. Simpley dont want a high ROF, More ROF=More spent on paint. Spray and Pray tactics seem to be growing, what happened to one shot one kill? lol

Well why restrict the people who WANT electros, just because you dont?

[DiSoRdeR]

Originally posted by -=Squid=-
Well why restrict the people who WANT electros, just because you dont?

Just cause I dont want one, doesnt mean I dont like them... Alot of electros are very nice, still thinking if I will buy one I know you can switch it to semi if you want, and such. I got nothing against them, I just wouldnt want to pay more for paint. When I can have the same amout of fun with a mech. And I never said any one should restict people from buying them, I was just stating my opinion on the subject of ROF.

[LudavicoSoldier]

I think that what it really is is that there are alot of rec-ballers on this board, some of whome dont give a $hit about competition paintball. With speed becoming so prevalant in higher end guns, some of us rec-ballers fear that paintball simply wont be as fun as it was before. The new technology always gets farmed out into the lower end guns over time. Before you know it, even n00bs will be shooting 25BPS with their superfckingfast whatever that only cost them less than $250, on the recball field. I was never one for the paintball firehose. I dont want to see it, or play against it in rec games. Eventually new players wont even know what its like to shoot under 15BPS. I find that sad.

[-=Squid=-]

Originally posted by spleefstylez
I think that what it really is is that there are alot of rec-ballers on this board, some of whome dont give a $hit about competition paintball. With speed becoming so prevalant in higher end guns, some of us rec-ballers fear that paintball simply wont be as fun as it was before. The new technology always gets farmed out into the lower end guns over time. Before you know it, even n00bs will be shooting 25BPS with their superfckingfast whatever that only cost them less than $250, on the recball field. I was never one for the paintball firehose. I dont want to see it, or play against it in rec games. Eventually new players wont even know what its like to shoot under 15BPS. I find that sad.

I generally agree with that, but you might wanna watch the language. That stuff gets you banned on AO

[RRfireblade]

I think your biggest misconception is that those who'd like to see a restriction of some kind don't shoot electros. Wrong.Also,you seem to think that all the complainers are slow shooters.Wrong again.Maybe some,but definately not all.

I shoot almost exclusively electro except for outlaw rec ball and local fun days.As for speed,I'll put my speed up against anybody,anywhere w/ an equally legal set up.What upsets me most in regards to this debate is how easy it is for any idiot w/ an allen wrench to turn his marker into a completely illegal and unsafe product.

I do agree, however, that these types of cheats as well as many others are very hard to stop with any real consistancy.I also don't think it's fair to those of us who have developed our own skill the old fashioned way,to be in a heads up ROF contest w/ any Tom,Don and Harry who has a couple hundred bucks and $1 worth of tools.

There has to be and should be some way to fix that situation.The point of these threads is to hopefully stumble upon something that might get the job done.Simply,if your fully legal in your setup and fully capable in your fingers,you should not feel threatend by any of this talk.The fact that you are implys that your concerned that you'll be out matched on a truly even playing field.

Perhaps that's the real problem.

[-=Squid=-]

Trust me, my playing ability doesnt have anything to do with this I dont cheat, I keep my debounce perfectly legal, but I can without ANY problem hit beyond 14bps, no problem.