ok, I ask you. Whats with all the "speed" threads?

[Rebel46_99]

Originally posted by DK1


Truth spoken by this man!

Before we come up with new rules, why don't we try enforcing the one's we've got? I mean, if we don't enforce what we've got now... it doesn't really matter if we put a cap in. People will just let it slide like everything else.

For one, I'd LOVE to see a tourney where they actually take points off for filthy language and whining screaming teams . I've heard a lot of people say they were going to do it, but it never happens.

DK1

This is something that has been discussed in the past although I can't find the thread. (Yes guys, I did do a search. ) And at that time, I was told that with the likes of certain coaches roaming the sidelines swearing up a storm, because of who they were, that nothing was ever going to be done. My point was that those are exactly the people who should be nailed for those type of infractions. IF they ever finally (I know, good frickin' luck!! ) realized that their actions would cost them points, and possibly a championship, and IF Tournament Directors and Referees found the cajones to enforce their own rules, then MAYBE you might see some things turn around. But, as long as they (THEY being high profile coaches and players) are allowed to "run the show", the rest of us may as well stick our thumbs in our backsides, smile and say, "Thank you sir, may I have another."

DW

[hardr0ck68]

No one said they were going to break into every HALO owners house and steal their gear. No ones taking it away from them. This is just another option to be explored. If I am a tourny premoter and I want to hold a tourny with only gravity feed loaders that shoulde'nt be an uproar. Now as a player, if I could find a tourny that was gravity feed only trust me I would be there. If I could find a tourny that limmited paint use, or gave points for conserving paint I would be there, and if I could find a mech only tourny then I would be there. Why? we all have our own reasons mine is fingers that move at 5bps while a gun shoots at 26bps... SO yeah, do I want to change the NPPL or PSP? no not at all. Do I want to put Odossey under? No I love my HALO...do I want devision choices when I go play tourny series and local stuff? HELL YES. And I would be willing to pay more and drive farther to experiance them!!

[Scircal]

Being able to say we have established safe practices, and follow them, is the only thing that has kept us legal at times. There are not only countries around the world where our sport is illegal, but places in this country where it is banned. You and I may think it safe, but we're responsible adults.

Okay, since safety is your major concern, let me make you a counter-offer: mandate the use of thicker goggles with full head protection masks and lower fps to 200-220. Both of those options are just as if not more enforceable than a BPS cap.

There are people out there everyday that have never stepped on a field, who see the sudden rise in balls per second, and see the lack of effort by the industry to regulate itself on this matter, and see the lack of integrity displayed in circumventing the "assisted trigger" rules.

If they've never stepped on a field, how will they have seen "the sudden rise in balls per second?" They will just see some really fast shooting. The possible reactions to that are myriad. But my guess is the bigger hump to get over is that people run around shooting projectiles at each other with "guns." In fact, that's largely the reason I hear why people won't walk on to a field. Not because of the number of bps. In fact, I've never heard that complaint from someone who's never played. I have heard it from some people who play once in a while, and like I said, at the field I normally play at, the owner won't let the experienced players play with the newb group without their consent.

As for lack of integrity enforcing rules, I agree it's damaging. A lot of that is due to the fact that more players are under 18 these days, resulting in more refs under 18. I'd suggest one way to help that problem is to have ref certification courses or something of the like.

The injury numbers are going up fast though, and correct or not, non paintball people are correlating this with the sudden rise in balls per second.

Actually, the non-paintball people are correlating injury with the rise in youth (<18) playing and the lack of use of basic safety equipment.

Many injuries occur because players are not wearing goggles or face masks, said researcher Dr. David Listman of St. Barnabas Hospital in New York. ...

The game is played at organized paintball centers, which usually provide and require face masks, Listman said. But children often play without protective equipment in woods, back yards or even basements, he said.

Source: Study Finds Paintball Injuries On Rise
January 5, 2004

Nothing about bps. Nothing even about faulty safety equipment. The problem is NO safety equipment. Now if you're worried about the non-sports media (i.e. most news departments in media) being a the problem and wanting to impress them, forget it. You can't. As I've said, the problem isn't bps, it's the intrinsic nature of the sport in which you fire "guns" at each other. I've worked in news rooms at newspapers and I can tell you THAT is the major sticking point. People I've talked to or tried to introduce to the sport never said "Okay, I'd like to play, but will they be firing 10 bps or 20 bps?" Forget trying to impress the media, those that are open to paintball, by and large, will be open to it in most all its flavors. Those that are reluctant don't like it because they perceive it as "spreading the culture of violence" or "feeding America's insatiable desire for guns" or some other non-bps-related gobbletygook.

As for the laws against the sport and areas where it's banned, that's related, again, to the idea of shooting projectiles at someone with a "gun" and the concern over kids shooting each other in the eye.

If insurers won't insure fields that allow unlimited bps, I'm more than willing to accept that. They won't insure fields that don't require goggles and full-face masks. Insurers exerting pressure on the industry is nothing new. But they are only going to do that if there are studies saying there is a statistically significant correlation between increase in bps and increase in injuries. There aren't any of those.

Heh Heh Ya but did you read it all and actually comprehend anything you read

Yes I did. Thanks for the subtle insinuation that I'm a moron because I disagree with you. Next time, just come out and say it.

[hardr0ck68]

BTW, at the Sever open I played with Oswego State Paintball Club and yeah I was pulled for swearing at a guy who was playing on. He was on a run threw and we blasted him before he got past the 40, but he kept running and i kept shooting him then of course he tried to bunker one of my mid guys he misses the mid guy puts more paint on him and he finally walks off i yelled something a lil bit not so nice and got pulled for it. But yeah OSU OWNED them in the end so its all good :P

[Paint-Fool]

Limiting bps will not stop over shooting. Just because a marker is capped at 13 bps instead of 20 bps won't change a thing. It comes down to the person behind the trigger having some self control. There is no way to regulate that. Some people will still use bounce or some other mode of cheating no matter what the cap is. The only way to stop it and weed those peole out is to enforce rules. The field owner or refs need to peanlize those people severly for constant over shooting. Throw them out for a day or a weekend or whatever. Maybe even a permanent ban from the field if the do it too often. If the reason people want it lowered is for safety you need to lower the bps to maybe 5bps to really make it safe.

[Brophog]

They're not going to start writing legislation against us for the use of facemasks. We have full face masks, and apart from some instances, we enforce that rule pretty well.

But are you really going to tell me that these super high bps won't be getting similiar attention in a few years? We're talking 30 bps here!! That'll leave a mark.

It doesn't take long for little johnny's bruises to get tied back to some idiot shooting 30 bps. Its one thing to be overshoot with 5 balls, but when your marker can hit 30, your going to get quite a bit larger mark as it becomes harder and harder to not overshoot. You must respect people's ability to blow things out of proportion. You get a few mad parents together, and they start talking to city councilmen. It escalates from there.

How will the paintball community react to this. You gonna say, "Well we discussed it, but my kid had more fun shooting 30 bps, even though 15 would have been just as much fun." If we don't set any kind of restriction, we have nothing to fall back on in this situation.

Compare that to facemasks. We say "We have a strict policy of full facemask use that is enforced at all times."

The problem I see with the anti-restriction argument is your not forward thinking enough. It takes time to put together a valid restriction and implement it. Every month that we don't work toward that goal it becomes increasingly harder to implement. We have a half dozen loader companies and 2 dozen marker companies right now trying to squeeze every bps out of their equipment because they know little johnny will buy it due in large part to that BPS number on the side of the box.

I'm not unreasonable in my limitation. Right now, SOME limitation is a start to keep the mess under control.

I don't want to change the game. Whether I agree or disagree with tourney style ball is irrelevant. The bps I and others are posting will not hurt that style of ball. They will not ban electros.

I don't see the reason, NOT to have a limitation, aside from inconvenience on the part of manufacturers. Manufacturers of all kinds have to deal with these things. They'll adapt, and if we act soon enough, we can inact grandfather clauses so that very few items need to be changed.

The longer it goes, the more you HURT the manufacturers on this.