AO OD - Time for something fresh.

[Muzikman]

Phil, I think the problem is people are getting defensive because of the first post. I think an evolving AO Day is a good thing and I think each one that I have been to has it's own unique aspects. I guess it's me, but I personally do not think that the current evolution of AO Days are stale or corny. Since I have not seen any ideas from the person who started this thread, it almost worries me that AO Days will turn into, as someone put it, a circus. I think AO Days are for the AO community, I can care less about the people outside this community. Members who have friends that come a long and end up having a good time and joining AO is a great thing, and I encourage this. But I do not think an AO Day should be used as a marketing tool for AGD or any other company. In my mind, these days are for the people, by the people

[cphilip]

I think your right Muz. Its maybe that sets the tone wrong and then they don't really see ALL the rest of the post where thats debated. I can see that but can't seem to do anything about it. But I was indeed hopeing that people would read it all after that point. Comes off wrong both ways if you don't. ah well...

[Z-man]

Having attended several small AO Days and now organized the first major one on the California Coast in a while I thought I would share some of my thoughts,

I like what Thordic

[Thordic]

That kinda hits the nail on the head. "To those outside the community, the idea of AO days is stale and corny." To that, I say, who cares? AO Days arent for those outside the community. They are for those inside the community, like those lame Saturn picnics they have every year. People who drive Honda's don't go to them or care about them.

Is everyone welcome at AO Days? Sure. But should we make a point of trying to attract people outside of AO a main selling point? I don't think so. If 50 AOers show up, and everyone brings a friend, thats 50 other people. Even if only half of them end up coming over to AO to visit, thats 25 new members. And it seems like a lot higher percentage than 50% actually sign up. Closer to 75%.

The general paintball public is free to think we are stale and corny. As long as we are still having fun.

[cphilip]

Now that I agree with!

Z I don't think anyone cares if vendors are there or not. But they do represent a source of revenue and sometimes are helpfull if they are there. As long as they are there to cater to AO no one really cares. And sometimes they can offer a source of amusement and distraction and even prizes for the attendee's. So I see no negatives as long as they are there because they want to cater to AO'ers. Thats the bottom line.

I wouldn't think of inviting another marker manufacturer to one though. I might however call up a distributor and see what he was willing to offer for a chance to be there. Cheaper paint, prizes and special pricing on Hoppers and such. And of course first thing would be to make sure I invited all the AO guys that make stuff. Its more like what can you do for us? than it is what can we do for them. Thats the attitude I always take. If they think I am being concieted then fine... don't come! Thats my attitude with them. Often they want to help out. Smaller ones more often than the big ones. Although we had National at this last one. Selling paint and even raffling off a marker as well as donated a bunch of prizes for the dinner raffle. Not only they did, but many AO vendors did as well. And of course AGD. Its all in the attitude you take in it really. They all have advertising budgets for stuff to give away. Why shouldn't AOers get some of that free stuff! If they going to detract from the event then don't ask them. If they going to do something for AOers then do ask.

[Muzikman]

And if it is so stale and corney to people ouside the community, why is there talk from the oldest owners group out there to have a "POG Day" :)

http://www.paintmagazine.com/cgi-bin/cutecast/cutecast.pl?forum=8&thread=9615

[Suede]

Originally posted by JEDI
I'm gonna reitterate Thordics opinion too. I think its a good one. He's trying to convey a feeling. Saying that improving AO days, while still keeping the same atmosphere, may be infringing on this feeling.

The idea of "same but better" in itself may be the problem.
Some people may have liked the idea of sitting in the parking lot on an empty case of paint, talking with friends. I know none of you with good ideas are disagreeing with this. I know you're intentions are good, but many of us are content with the way they're done now.
No one side has the "right" opinion, but I like the "Thordic" view on how AO days should go.

TASTES GREAT VS. LESS FILLING

As has been reiterated by numerous people already, I don't think anyone is trying to stop AO Days or the "feeling" of community of AO Days. But AO Days, as defined by Thordic, back to the days of Country Time and Kool-Aid (depending on the part of the country you live it) and backyard BBQ's can happen any time, any weekend or once a month just on PMs alone. Getting 15-25 people together is not that difficult. And these gatherings are fun.

I disagree with the "corny and stale" part of the original post as many of you also seem stuck on this issue as well. But in the hopes of moving forward and trying to make something constructive of the actual intent of this thread, can we then compromise and agree that AO Days should be defined by those smaller, more intimate get togethers and that perhaps larger events could be called by different names, more colorful names so that we can differentiate them? It will eventually get confusing when you ask someone, "Hey were you there for AO Day 35 or was it 42?" Even the Rocky movies had to stop at #5.

As for larger events of say 100+ or 150+ people, can we discuss the possibility of trying to do something new? I don't think having an event eventually of 5,000+ AOers from around the country or around the world would be a bad thing either. Just call it something other than AO Day.

Now, does having such a large event take away from the "feeling" of community of AO? I guess some people might say that, some might argue that you will get lost in the crowd. But I think it could also be viewed another way. How VALIDATING a feeling is it when you are SURROUNDED by so many who hold the same views, interests, and come from all over the world? Thordic wrote that it doesn't matter if the AOers are from Australia or Germany and I agree 100%. But REALISTICALLY speaking, people will not fly cross country let alone across the world to attend a simple BBQ--unless, that is, it's being held at someplace like the skating rink in Rockerfeller Center in which case it would be a destination/vacation unto itself. (Here's to hoping that might happen one day.)

And, yes, I think having vendors, sponsors and paintball (or non-paintball) celebs would and should be welcome to these larger events. It would help to draw more people as well as afford the attendants with more giveaways as well as discounts. If this was not the case, then why does everyone seem to clamor for Tom K or Jon C or Clare to attend their AO Day? Their presence boosts moral but it is also a way for promoters to advertise the event by being able to say, "Guess who's coming to paintball?"

[cphilip]

Excellent summation Suede! couldn't have put it better myself. VERY nice!

Yea... I missed what everyone was so agrieved about. I just sort of skimmed right over the comment about stale and corny. Until Muzik pointed out to me how people were taking that. Problem was I read that all differently. I read it more like "I heard we need to spice it up some from some people." That's what I read into it. And I took more as "Give me some ideas as to wether you agree with that and if so what would you do?" Thats how I took it. I didn't take offense to it because I just did not read it the same way as some of you seem to. But once someone hit me over the head with it that this is what people were thinking it ment it now all comes clear. Sorry I was so slow. However I think I was reading the Authors intent a little closer to what he ment than many of you were. But well... no matter.

[Thordic]

If there were ever an AO event that large, I doubt I'd bother attending. But maybe thats just me. I'd rather avoid the circus.

[shartley]

I will admit that I like both small and large events, but for different reasons.

If I want to sit back and watch people, I like large events. But if I want to interact with people, I like small events. I would rather sit down with 5 or 6 people and have a couple good games of paintball mixed with great conversations, than rush, rush, rush, bump elbows, and see lots of people but never get a chance to really MEET them.

[cphilip]

I'd like to see the regional big ones about 200 or maybe at most 250. Thats about all I would like to deal with...

[Muzikman]

Originally posted by Suede

But REALISTICALLY speaking, people will not fly cross country let alone across the world to attend a simple BBQ--unless, that is, it's being held at someplace like the skating rink in Rockerfeller Center in which case it would be a destination/vacation unto itself. (Here's to hoping that might happen one day.)

Well...no, I couldn't make it, but I had plane tickets to the AO NOCA / SOCA meet, Hitech came to AOSC, so yes, people will travel across the country to attend an "AO DAY" :)

[Suede]

Originally posted by Thordic
If there were ever an AO event that large, I doubt I'd bother attending. But maybe thats just me. I'd rather avoid the circus.

I think cphilip as well as many others addressed the issue of a "circus." I wrote earlier that HOW an event is run-- when done by a company--really depends on the individual company. This equally applies to teams and players.

Since you seem to enjoy the circus analogy, here is my response: circuses come in all different sizes. There are the Sigfreid and Roys (sp?), the Barnum and Bailey's, the Joe's Drive-Thru circus (complete with the world's most tatooed man), and of course there have even been flea circuses.

It has been my experience that sometimes the larger ones tend to be better run because they generate more revenue, can offer more visual feast for the spectators, and because of their liquidity are better able to provide for and protect their staff and the animals in their care.

Me? I like them all.

[Blazingace]

My head hurts. Owwwww...........Can I play paintball, please?

[Ronin 23]

Originally posted by shartley
I will admit that I like both small and large events, but for different reasons.

If I want to sit back and watch people, I like large events. But if I want to interact with people, I like small events. I would rather sit down with 5 or 6 people and have a couple good games of paintball mixed with great conversations, than rush, rush, rush, bump elbows, and see lots of people but never get a chance to really MEET them.

Something to ponder. What if we can get both done at the same time?