Idea for a Budget Mag Package, AGD Please Read...

[nerobro]

Sacrilage time...

Why not have an offshore MFG make AIR valves? Short of the short term backlash. The taiwaneese mfgs manage to build a reg, valve, gun, good barrel (albit it's .692), and even an electroframe for $200 retail..

the AIR is mostly lathe work. Could it be done overseas for cheaper?

[Brophog]

Do you work overseas Nero? Neither do I. That's why.

Quality means something, don't you guys get this. What is this fascination with price? Have we gone so far down hill that our favorite store is Walmart, and our favorite restaurant McDonalds. Do you people not appreciate anything anymore.

Sorry for the rant. In my opinion, with paintball markers being so similiar, my money goes with top notch quality and top notch customer service. That's AGD. You can get a hold of Tom at a moment's notice for anything you need. To me, that is worth $200 more.

[nerobro]

IIRC worr isn't making their bodies here anymore. You can get some seriously high quality items from the east. they're completely cappable of building automags. I'm not saying AGD should move... but... It could be a move that would make an ubercheap mag possiable.

From my understanding the true cost of the mag, is the stack of tolerances between the sear pivot, and the valve. You have several bits in there that are curved surfaces that you need to keep accurate to the .001 or less. Or else you fudge up the timing of the gun.

I think I'd like to see how AGD does it. or what tools/setups they have their MFG shop use to get the tolerances right.

and like I said. Sacrilage for even suggesting it.

[Brophog]

I didn't mean for that to come out harsh, just kinda tired of the repeated suggestions for some cheap product out of AGD. Some people think that Kingman and Brass Eagle are the epitome of paintball and that for some reason we should attempt to delve into their level. Yet some of these same people want something with more quality than a spyder or talon. I just don't get it.

I don't see anyone asking Earon Carter or Glenn Palmer for some toned down versions of their fine markers. Its kinda sad that some are asking Tom for cheap knockoffs of his.

As for the overseas comment, I'm a big supporter of trying to make as much stuff here as possible. Some is a quality aspect, but most of that is from a job aspect. The biggest problem with our economy is the lack of worthwhile jobs, many of which are manufacturing jobs that have headed overseas to save a buck. We need to find some common ground where companies can afford to put out a good product at a decent price, yet be able to pay workers a decent salary. There has to be a middle ground between $30/hr and cheap foreign labor.

[Gabriel]

I agree with brogphrog. Although our economy is really not that bad. I do however agree with supporting american workers.

P.S. For those that want to discuss our economy, I will just say one thing: I am in germany. The unemployment in my state is 24%. People earn less, and with the euro being $o.80, I think they are entitled to gripe, not us.

[Cort95]

Uh oh, looks like we got something started here. Did anyone read that old interview with Tom someone posted recently? One thing he mentioned, and I think still applies, is that there is a lot of percieved value in the paintball market, and if nothing else, AGD wants to go down knowing they provided real value. I have to admit, back in the early Level 7 days, I thought mag toters were a bunch of elitists for paying 400 bucks for a paintball gun. Once I tore through 4 or 5 100-200 dollar guns, I was lucky enough to rediscover AGD's products. Now, I would never disrespect my friends who choose another marker, people that play paintball still have to eat, and so do the Taiwanese. But I am not exaggerating or kissing butt when I say that AGD made me believe in American worksmanship again, and I hope that is something that doesn't change for as long as people play paintball. I'm getting all misty eyed now

[mjs1217]

I totally agree with alot of the points that have been brought up. I admit that my plan wasn't completely thought through, and I think that it's really up to Tom Kaye, who has said that it isn't feasable. So, I suppose it is best that AGD continue to make high-end markers and be known for doing that extremely well, rather than doing that pretty good and making low-end markers semi-descently.


-mjs

[nerobro]

AGD is one of those companys that cares ;-)

Wow, this thread has really changed direction. You're right, there does need to be a middle ground. $30 an hour is rediculous for what a lot of people do. People get $25 an hour for driving a dumptruck, they they don't own or have to maintain.

People get $30 an hour for shuffling paper too....

Hmm... You guys still have me thinking about how to make a cheaper mag. Right now despite being lathe work, it's not simple lathe work. maybe it could be made more simple?

Say a single piston regulator? Versus the many part design that's beign run now.

Hmm... And then there's the whole massive stockpile of (what are effectively) $100 AIR's sitting around the AGD factory ;-) I can't wait to see what gun those get delivered on.

[Cort95]

I'm pretty sure the old valves are being destroyed, it seems I heard that when the "go retro" program started. It makes sense, it's just like microsoft (sorry AGD, no offense) discontinuing support for older systems. Once AGD phases out the old stainless level 7's, their support costs should drop somewhat, which hopefully will mean even greater things to come...

[OysterBoy]

Hey I have a side-bar question.

Can you still buy an RT valvE??? I havent been able to find it on the site. I dunno if I have enough for an X-valve, so Id just want an RT.

Any help?

[cockermongol]

concerning jobs overseas...

Really I think the transfer of jobs overseas can be attributed to several factors.

1) Tarrifs are too low, so it is beneficial to import.
2) Manufacturers have to pay their workers a certain amount (say, $30/hour) plus benefits, or the worker's unions will strike. Overseas, wages are low and there aren't any unions to halt production and force the prices up.

So, it would seem, the U.S. should either:
1) become isolationists and force American companies to stay in America,
or 2) set a national regulation on the amount workers are allowed to be payed (socialism)

The beauty is we have a capitalist economy. In this type of economy, unions will drive wages up until businesses leave, and if there is no protective tariff raised (to halt the flow of businesses out of the country) then Americans will lose jobs. When Americans lose their jobs they quit the unions that failed them and are then willing to take new jobs that pay less. Usually, by this time, the economy is so bad the U.S. government finally implements a tariff and businesses come back to the U.S. where there is an abundant supply of workers willing to work for cheap (Gilded Age).

It's all a big cycle. This is why a college education is such a big deal. Most of the time skilled jobs (jobs requiring a college education or some type of additional schooling) are harder to move out of the country. Eventually something will have to halt the outward flow of businesses from the country, but right now low tarrifs and overbearing unions make a move very desirable.

[ChucktheMAGician]

Originally posted by OysterBoy
Can you still buy an RT valvE??? I havent been able to find it on the site. I dunno if I have enough for an X-valve, so Id just want an RT.

Nope, just x-valves. If you want a Retro pick up a used one from someone wanting to get an X.