mag efficiency? What is all the crying about?

[Brophog]

Originally posted by FlameboyC11
It's not like fields charge extra if you re-fill after every game or so

Perhaps YOUR field doesnt. There are still several fields out there that charge either per fill, per oz, or per pressure.

[FlameboyC11]

That's surprising to me, huh. All the fields in my area have unlimited field/air fees only.

[AGD]

In theory there should be an upper absolute limit to the shots you get from a tank because it takes X amount of energy to shoot a ball. I am not surprised that in reality all the markers are generally close. I agree that efficiency is the latest thing to quote.

AGD

[GT]

Originally posted by FlameboyC11
Most of the sub $300 guns, when upgraded to x-mag prices, could probabily get better efficency.

Maybe I shouldnt compare them to any gun? All I did was setup a simple table and ask you guys what you thought. Who said I was comparing to an xmag? I was simply stating what a "mag" got per tank?

Price >300's
Timmy: 1200-1500
New shocker: 1000-1200 (have read evolve will get you 15-1700 but I want to compare stock to stock)
Old school shocker: 1000-1200
Cyborg: 1700-2000 (still to few threads to confidantly put that number down)
Viking/excall: 1600-1800
ICD: 1200-1500
Blazer: 1000-1300
Impy: 100-1700 (had trouble finding a number here, forum is full of morons that could get like 2 cases off of a 47/3k )
Any angel: 1000-1300
Matrix LCD: 900-1300

<300 priced guns
Tippy M98: 1000-1300
Cocker: stock '03 1200-1400
Spyder: stock 1000-1400
Mag LVLX: about 1200-1500

I find it kinda odd that you are comparing guns that vary greatly in price.

Why is that odd? I am looking at desirble markers that a number of folks use and compare daily.

Put $700 into a cocker, and you are going to end up with a very nice efficency #, which, odds are, is going to be higher than a mag

Well you sure as hell better get something for 700 bucks! You do realize that you had taken a once 300 dollar gun and dropped 700 into to make it atleast 1k spent. Lets be honest and say that a mag gets 1300 shots per fill and this cocker gets 2000, a very very well tuned cocker that 99.9% of cocker owners cant seem to figure out.

Now lets say your local field charges 1 per 1kpsi. If on average you shoot a case a weekend you will spend an extra $2.90 per day to play with a mag. so lets see 65 bucks a case, 15.oo feild fee, lets say 5 bucks in gass for a total of 85 dollars, less your air charge. Ok so to play with a mag over a super eff. cocker you are looking at an increase in total daily pb cost of about 2.8%.

BTW, I can build you mag with an X valve for about the same price as a 2k3 STOCK cocker(meaning it will be about as eff. as a mag). That also means a mag, that is in the mid 2lbs and will never ever chop a ball. Once you play a few games and chop a ball or 2 you will wish you droped that extra $2.90 for a mag that day....

[Gabriel]

Originally posted by gtrsi


I have seen guys reply in this same response more than a few times. IF some of you guys cant get good fills close by maybe running a n2 rig isnt something that is very feasible. Its kinda like driving a ferrari in arakasas, you feel real cool until you begin to search for an authorized dealer to service your ride. At some point it just becomes to much of a PITA to make it worth your while.

What's wrong with arkansas?

Please, this is a retorical question, we dont need a response. (for my fellow arkansans: Shhhh. Be vewy, vewy qwiet. We'uh hunting wabbits.)

Gabe

[cgrieves]

As a tournament player, I've never had a problem with 'Mag efficiency. I'm not sure how refills work at US tourneys but over here you refill your tank after each and every game if you've fired more than 50 shots. It's so quick and easy that it makes no sense not to. The marker has to shoot the hopperfull I start a game with, and the pots on my back (normally a 4+3), which it does. I couldn't care less how much air is left in my tank once it's done that.

At the very few recball days I've played with my X I've also never had a problem when using an 88ci 4500 tank, but then again I tend to get up front and have fun rather than sit 50 yards away and empty hoppers at every bush that moves (I'd rather play a tourney than recball any day of the week though).

Personally I see the X as the ultimate tournament marker- if it happens to make a great recball marker too, then that's a bonus. Your mileage and opinion may vary.

Besides, whatever marker we've sunk thousands of pounds/dollars into, we're bound to hail it's benefits and play down it's weaknesses, so these threads don't really serve much of a purpose other than to kick up a fuss about nothing.

[breg]

Ok, then is there a difference between input pressure and operating pressure?

[shartley]

[Branchvillian]

Not sure where some of those numbers came from, but my mag gets no where near 1000 shots off a 68/4500.

[tony3]

Mags could get good efficency, but the fact is that once I got below 800 on my mag I would have half feeds, every other shot would fire etc. On my impulse I could get pretty much to the bottom of my tank before I ran out of air. I used to get only about 600 reliable shots off my 68/3000, on my imp 800-900.

[Lethargic]

Branch. I can drop a hopper and 7 pods in a single game with my 70/4500. Whats more, I have done so on multiple occasions, and my mag will shoot all that paint EVERY TIME. SO lets see here: Egg (around 200) + 7 pods (150 Each) = 1250 balls, give or take a few.

I have never understood exactly why people bash on mag efficiency. The ONLY reason I can find stems to a comment Tom made wayyyy back when level 10 was being beta tested that went along the lines of "Using this upgrade will take a littel bit off of your efficiency." Somehow, this has become translated to mean thatmags are incapable of getting over a thousand shots on a fill, or that LX takes several pods off of one's efficiency. This problem is compounded by thousands of people who claim that their (insert random gun here) can get (obscenely high number of shots/fill here) with no supporting evidence.

I will continue to commend gtrsi for actually going out and finding some real numbers, and then posting them, even when they go against the current beliefs here on AO. And remember people, this is an AVERAGE, so having a few guns that get more, and a few that get less is a normal occurence.

[Creative Mayhem]

gtrsi, thanks for the info. Great to know that in reality mags arent that bad on air. However, I have a question about one of your numbers.. you say that old shockers get 1000-1200 shots, is that Air or CO2, cause every old school shocker I shot while coming up during the electro revolution(thanks for the term Albinonewt ) were gas hogs, and everyone would shoot CO2 on them due to poor air efficiency. Now, I'm not saying your numbers are wrong, but it seems a little high from what I have experienced. Can you/anyone shed some light?

[tobz]

One thing I would like to point out...

If you get 700 off of a 68/3k tank with a level x mag...

that IS NOT EQUAL TO ABOUT 1050 shots off a 68/4.5k..

Since your mag is only using approximately the top 2k psi of the tank.. that is more like 1200-1300 shots per 68/4.5k.. since only ~2k psi of the original 3k can be used, but all of the extra 1.5k can be used from the 4.5k tank..
I hope that made sense...

[Lohman446]

Squid, I think thats postwhoring, getting two posts for one... but then again

[RRfireblade]

Without reading the whole thread I'd say that efficiency numbers on the internet are similar to BPS numbers.

I'll also just say this,the LX Mag is not "Bad" but any mostly stock Cocker I've ever had kills it.My Imps have been a tad worse,Vikings and Trix in the old days(when I had them)were much worse and most others are/were a fair bit better.

For what ever it's worth.

If your a hardcore Mag owner,the only real improvement left is better efficiency,pus that's the big fad right now so what else is there to whine about?

Jay.