Crackdown on cheater boards

[magman007]

well, then thats cheep as hell, but now that i know about it, il be sure to bonus ball you when i play you next, because i can rip 14 walking and 18 raking.

I dont really care if you cheat against me or not, as i said, i shouldnt have had my arm out when i did.

aslong as you are playing safe, and you have conplete control over your marker, then it isnt effecting me. It sucks for the people you play against, but again, so is life. Cheating isnt cheating until you get caught.


and did you ever stop to think, that maybe people wouldnt cheat if people didnt cheat in the first place? the major reason i see for higher rof, is to get one or 2 more balls into some one before they suck back to wipe, its hard enough to wipe one, let alone 3

[RoadDawg]

Well by watching the tourny there were lots of complaints about people playing on after being shot. Which in most cases were valid. Others just wanted to yell and scream to be heard. For example one guy got bunkered by one of the Empress girls and claimed he was over shot. I counted 4 maybe 5 shots on him. If that's over shooting then I've seen tons of worse cases. Hense that is why the ref told the player to take up bowling. The ROF cheaters annoy me due to the fact that they are basically not shooting semi. 3 or 4 shots a pull is not semi. That is a burst which is not allowed and shouldn't be. The fact I get hit is one thing but to make a somewhat level playing ground instead of back guys doing FA all the time is something I'd be happy to see. The crying and complaints go along in any sport. I felt the penalties were just and fair. 5 min can change a game since I seen several games with 30 sec games. At that pace 6 points are awarded.

[trains are bad]

aslong as you are playing safe, and you have conplete control over your marker, then it isnt effecting me. It sucks for the people you play against, but again, so is life. Cheating isnt cheating until you get caught.

*shakes head and wipes tear*

Maybe paintball isn't for me after all. I hope I never play against people like you.

[m-98]

It's sort of like gambling in baseball, people think that it wasn't a fair contest. When someone cheats, people think that the contest wasn't fair and it wasn't a true test of the team's skill.

[kilaueakid]

I find this article by PBSTAR very funny and should set the record straight. I play for team Ignition and was at the PSP LA this weekend. We did not have any guns banned, nor did we recieve any penalty's for our guns being "cheater guns" all weekend. I am not sure where PB STAR is getting there info, but like real world media, is and can be wrong and sometimes misleading. Yes, we stuck it to Thunderstruck, Yes we sent them home, No our guns were not banned and we never penalized for any gun related issues.

Truth from the source.

kila

[Jack & Coke]

if PBSTAR'S story is incorrect... you should email them a complaint and ask for a retraction.

[RoadDawg]

Originally posted by kilaueakid
I find this article by PBSTAR very funny and should set the record straight. I play for team Ignition and was at the PSP LA this weekend. We did not have any guns banned, nor did we recieve any penalty's for our guns being "cheater guns" all weekend. I am not sure where PB STAR is getting there info, but like real world media, is and can be wrong and sometimes misleading. Yes, we stuck it to Thunderstruck, Yes we sent them home, No our guns were not banned and we never penalized for any gun related issues.

Truth from the source.

kila

Well that eliminates that story. I did however see a couple 5 min penalties accessed and was told it was for "illegal" markers. Not sure who the teams were but they were on Saturday afternoon.

[manike]

Yes I played with Ignition at World Cup, but at this event I was playing with Texas Storm. Who ever wrote that article didn't know the full story. There were no complaints about igntion during their game and no issues from the judges but afterwards the opposition were whining. Ignition never had any guns pulled as far as I was aware. Plenty of others did though...

The checking of guns at this event was a joke.

It came down to many issues and there was no set policy or testing method.

It's something we tried to address for other Millenniumn Series with the rule on testing guns, but here the judges tested however they felt like it.

They would routinely take a gun, hold it loosely and pull the trigger very slowly or with two fingers as they pulled it.

I was penalised for a bouncing gun the very first game I played and before it became obvious how stupid the refs were being (after that Dan and Rosie took better control of the situation) because the ref couldn't understand how I could shoot my gun so fast 'legally' . Any way he pulled it in a normal fashion (or as per the Millennium rules tests) it was fine, but when pulled really slowly after about 5-10 shots he managed to get a two shot bounce and gave me a 5 minute major penalty. He threatened me with a 10, if I argued. They were absolutely moronic about it. In my next game I asked the opposition player in the back corner to hang out and wait for me so I could pull my trigger really slowly and try and get two shots out at him...

Anyway of pulling the trigger as if playing the gun was fine. I picked up and tried lots of other guns at the events and I could get them all to double shoot. Egi and I estimated we could get 85-90% of the guns at the event to get bounce when tested the way the judges were testing the guns. And yet I never saw even one player shooting a gun in a fashion similar to the test method.

They decided a huge number of guns were illegal and started screwing anyone who's gun they could get two shots out of anyway they could. It was a joke.

At one point they shot a hopper and a POD through a kids gun, before declaring it to have bounce.

Then Jim Drew got involved and it seems that he is now rather upset at not making boards for all of the Intimidators so he came out with an insane accusation that all 'Black to silver' aliases were illegal. As if it would be guns of just one anodising colour. Has the guy lost his mind? Or is it the fact he doesn't make the boards for these guns? He was going around accusing all Alias's and DM4's of ramping and being illegal.

Before one game he asked a kid on the opposition if he could try his gun. The kid said 'sure' Jim tried his gun and then told the refs that all the teams guns were illegal as he 'owns a 100 Million dollar company' and knows when boards aren't legal, he didn't even test the other guns! Hahaha the king of making boards that made cheating easier pointing out illegal guns that don't use his boards... He had something like 7 guns pulled from that team. What a way to win a game huh? If you can't beat them, cheat them!

People from all over and with all kinds of guns were worrying themselves trying to make sure they could never under any test get a double shot, and to be honest it just wasn't possible. People were running with debounce up as high as they could go and yet with the way the judges were testing guns you could still make them 'illegal'.

The PSP (and NPPL) need to come up with a set test or better definitions. And definitely not just listen to jealous people who 'own 100 Million dollar companies) *think Austin powers movie*.

It was the biggest cluster *screw up* when it comes to 'bouncing guns' ever.

In effect the only people it caught were the innocent ones. The ones really trying to cheat would never have been caught by this idiocy.

I went around testing guns that had been deemed illegal and legal, and whereas there were genuinely some dodgy stuff going on, I'd say the majority of people penalised were not guilty of any intentional wrong doing.

There became issues with electronic guns the day they were invented.

Now it is definitely becoming a problem at all levels. But the current solutions are only catching the innocent.

Right now the only way to make sure your gun is legal for the stupid test being used in LA, IS TO CHEAT in the software.

Is that they way they want to force things to go?

[RoadDawg]

Wow Manike. Sounds like it was terrible behind the scenes. No wonder I seen quite a few 5 minute penalties up on the boards.

[Jack & Coke]

Pulling guns that double or triple shoots per single pull (fast or slow pull)= good

Inconsistant, untrainned, subjective, and lobbying ($100 million company owners influence) of refs checking markers = bad

[manike]

Originally posted by Jack & Coke
Pulling guns that double or triple shoots per single pull (fast or slow pull)= good

SO removing 90% of all electro guns there would be a good thing? How many times are you allowed to pull the trigger to get a two shot situation? What about the kid where they went through a hopper and a pod? is that a good thing?

I would certainly have to remove all e-mags in hybrid mode or that could be put into hybrid mode because every single one would have been illegal under these checks. They were pulling the triggers so slowly that you would get one shot from the electo and then one from the mechanical.

It's real easy to stop electro guns from getting two shots per slow pull... by cheating in the software, but do we want to go there? It's not so easy to do it by physical means, because of the recoil of the gun. Almost every electro gun could have been deemed 'illegal' by the way they were checking.

Rare and random recoil induced extra shots under slow pull conditions should not be a reason to penalise. Maybe warn, but not penalise. Regular or intentional abuse should be penalised in my opinion.

If it does it under playing conditions it should be penalised, but if it only happens under special and hard to achieve circumstances that don't relate to playing then what is the value?

[Jack & Coke]

LOL!

listen (err read) all of these guys complaining about their E-blades not passing the chrono refs bounce tests...

http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=435414

I like the refs agressive checking. It should serve notice to the payers who have illegal trigger setups. However, I also agree with manike that there should be a standard procedure for checking for bounce.

[Jack & Coke]

Manike,


I agree that shooting a hopper full of paint just to test for bounce is bad.

I also see your point about pulling slow to induce bounce. However, I have seen an illegal setup (WASed Angel on debounce 1) where if you pull fast or hard, the trigger will not bounce. But if you pull slow and light, the gun will double or triple shoot. So how do you test and catch this illegal gun if the ref is not allow to pull slow?

I think the refs should be able to pull any ways they can, but within reason and good faith.

[manike]

J&C I'm yet to see any installation of a WAS board in an Angel that I would consider legal to start with.

All the ones I have seen have a way to secretly (or at least not openly) bypass the eyes (and thus prevent bounce). To me that's wrong to start with.

I'm also yet to see any gun run with WAS and a debounce of 1 and be still be legal so that's the second cheat already with that set up...

I'm still unsure why if you can get your gun to do something in a non playing situation, why it would matter in the playing situation? Does the guy who has this angel play by pulling the trigger softly and slowly? or by pulling it hard and fast?

[Jack & Coke]

He plays by walking slowly and "coming off the trigger". He gets the trigger to vibrate, increasing his rof.

It's crazy.. I did it myself when I checked his gun out. On debounce 1, if I slowly pull the trigger (even slowly walking the trigger) the gun will turn into a machine gun.

If I pulled quick and hard, holding the trigger tight, the gun will only shoot once.

I'm just saying it's not a bad thing to check for bounce by pulling slow and soft.

If people want to cheat and run their guns at very low debounce settings, then they should be prepared to have their guns pulled if caught. Not whine about the refs.

If their guns boucne due to excessive recoil (i.e. E-Blades, timmys) then they should think ahead and reinstall a stronger magnet or return spring.

The "lightness" of the trigger pull has gotten out of hand. Excluding special RT setups (cut on/off pin and 900+ input pressure), you never had trigger bounce issues back in the day of all mech guns.