Crackdown on cheater boards

[lamby]

Yes, it would be illegal. What you are seeing is a reactive effect caused by the recoil. There is no bounce wit the e-blades optical switch, but if the ton and trel times (bounce settings of an e-blade) are set to low it will fire again the split second it fires because the trigger is set so light and will actually move enough to make it think it is another valid pull.

I like my light trigger so I have a high trel time (25ms-40bps max rof which keeps it from going full auto)

[Beemer]

Originally posted by Automaggot68

I've done searches, and asked shoppes around town,and I'm still not sure was bounce is. I know I'll be told to search again, but heck, could someone please explain to me, while we're on the subject?

Here ya go maggot.

Originally posted by RRfireblade
Basically, the "bounce" setting is a threshhold the software uses to determine if a signal was sent from the switch.It's purpose is to eliminate any switch signals that are created by anything other than a pull of the trigger.A switch has various states of conditions during the pull.It's not truly on/off if you check it at the most
fine degree.By dropping this "threshold",the software will recognize many more conditions than just on/off and fire when the switch is in between those to states.

Heres the link to the thread

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=121204&perpage=40&highlight=bounce&pagenumber=4

[SlartyBartFast]

There are two types of "bounce" and both are VERY easy to eliminate and test for.

Electronic switch noise should be designed out by the manufacturer/programmer. To test for it, a rapid string of trigger pulls and a count of how many shots are produced.

(a threshold for shot buffering should also be tested, a maximum delay between the last trigger pull and the last shot)

Bounce caused by recoil should be eliminated by a minimum trigger pull weight. Testing is easily performed by standardised tests.

Now, on the other hand I only have to smile at the absurd nature of the different threads I'm participating in. A marker bouncing due to recoil cannot be accurate. Yet in another thread I'm arguing with Palladin over what's statistically significant in terms of accuracy improvement.

[Evil1]

Thank you guys, that cleared it up. A few guys that day were like "thats not legal" and some were like "yes it is" So thanks for clearing everthing up.

[lamby]

just FYI it is just as illegal or legal (based on the event) as an e-mag in "hybrid" mode. Exactly the same concept, but e-blades can do it so much faster than e-mags.

[Doc Nickel]

Originally posted by SlartyBartFast
Electronic switch noise should be designed out by the manufacturer/programmer. To test for it, a rapid string of trigger pulls and a count of how many shots are produced.

-You don't even have to do that. Simply adding a tiny capacitor, roughly 100 uF (microfarad) to the two contacts of the microswitch will drastically reduce the detectable "switch noise".

Note that the original LED Angels had exactly that, for that exact purpose, but no one else uses 'em, even though nearly every gun uses basically the identical microswitch.

However, the whole point is max ROF, no matter how you come by it. Five years ago, Bill Cookston tested a bunch of players, and the fastest of the group was a kid with an Angel that Bill said "looked like he was having an epileptic seizure" to get 13/sec. (Recorded on a PACT timer.)

Nowadays everyone thinks they can do 16 or 18 or 22/sec; Even with techniques like walking or raking, I highly doubt most players could hit those speeds without the "electronic help" designed into most boards.

Detect switch noise and queue a shot or two? By definition that's firing more times that you pull the trigger, and therefore by current NPPL standards it's a "cheater"- and dozens of guns have those features right out of the box.

Doc.

[madmolly]

You know Doc

I have been saying that same thing on a ton of boards and no one responds. They just say "well my gun shoots 24 BPS". I tell them to look down at their two fingers and if they think each one can hit a trigger 12 times a second they need medication. It is not reasonable. I shoot a max 10 ball a second and that is rocking the trigger. My new Angel 4 says I shoot 24 BPS on the counter. Do I believe it. Hell no. I don't shoot that fast unless I take out my eblade with bounce so bad I touch the trigger and hold the tank and it empties the hopper. IT all boils down to 24 BPS is not possible without bounce.

[SlartyBartFast]

Originally posted by Doc Nickel
-You don't even have to do that. Simply adding a tiny capacitor, roughly 100 uF (microfarad) to the two contacts of the microswitch will drastically reduce the detectable "switch noise".

I have to disagree. For testing purposes you DO have to do as I suggested.

Otherwise the judges/field marshals would have to electronics experts and electronically test the boards to determine if the swithc bounce is eliminated.

Testing and enforcement have to be performed OUTSIDE the marker.

But it is true that eliminating it from a design standpoint is easy as you point out.

[xXHavokXx]

See for me there is two kinds of bounce, the youre ripping on the gun and it picks a up a few more bps in your stream bounce. Which I think is fine.

and

The every time I pull my trigger I lose control of my gun bounce.

I have both in my two guns, my dm4 bounces a little when youre walking at top speed and moving around a bit whereas my angel you can hit the trigger twice and it will empty the HALO without your hand on the trigger. I would never play like that but its fun to mess with. Ive seen people play with guns much like my angel, the old intimidator I had is capable of of 269 shots off one pull if you pull slow enough( not like you could do it in a game), alot of intimidators with WAS, or any gun with WAS is capable of the same.

How should we fix this? Ignore the first type of bounce as its not that bad and watch out for the uncontrollable kind like alot of timmies, WAS'd angels, WAS'd vikes and the like.

[hitech]

Nowadays everyone thinks they can do 16 or 18 or 22/sec; Even with techniques like walking or raking, I highly doubt most players could hit those speeds without the "electronic help" designed into most boards

While I agree that most peoples ROF claims are higher than they are capable of, I can hit 18 for 1 sec in 5 sec (based on miscues counter in version 4.0). That is on an emag without any switch noise. I have to use "manike's raking tecnique", but I can do it every time. For comparision, I can "pull" about 6, fan 10 and "normal rake" 12 or so.