Lift tournament ban on RT style guns?

**cphilip** · 03-10-2004, 05:16 PM

To be honest with you, lately I seen a complete relaxation of even checking for bounce. Not even looking for it in ANYTHING the last two Tournaments I been to. I even saw one allowing Tippman RT set ups! And openly saying so.

But then again there was never any "ban". You eiher passed the "one pull one shot" test or you didn't. Didn't matter what marker it was.

**tony3** · 03-10-2004, 05:43 PM

Out of the 4 local tournies I have been to, you can have any kind of bounce and they don't care. I think I could practically use full auto and they wouldnt care

**RoadDawg** · 03-10-2004, 05:47 PM

Originally posted by cphilip
To be honest with you, lately I seen a complete relaxation of even checking for bounce. Not even looking for it in ANYTHING the last two Tournaments I been to. I even saw one allowing Tippman RT set ups! And openly saying so.

But then again there was never any "ban". You eiher passed the "one pull one shot" test or you didn't. Didn't matter what marker it was.

Ask Manike about the LA Open and the bounce issue. Guess it got pretty bad.

**cphilip** · 03-10-2004, 06:13 PM

Well I have seen it pretty bad. And certainly not always RT valves nor Tippmans for that matter were getting it either. They all were getting kicked for bounce. And as many other markers were not allowed. Just lately seen it the other way around is all. Not saying that in some places its not being checked closely still though... Just not where I been lately.

**GoatBoy** · 03-10-2004, 06:25 PM

It's just like any other useless law really; the rule's not there for the spirit of the rule anymore, but merely acts as a mechanism for the rule "enforcers" to do what they want.

With all the trigger and hopper technology nowadays -- electro triggers, rollers, walking, the rule seems more or less useless, without even getting into people cheating the rule.

What the problem is now is the obvious uneven enforcement of an outdated rule. Like getting pulled over for some bogus traffic violation because the cop really just wants to search your car.

I say do away with the rule and allow full auto.

**FutureMagOwner** · 03-10-2004, 06:29 PM

they started enforcing it at my field when i started loosening the field strip screw on my emag and letting it out shoot a halo without much effort lol EDIT: it was to prove a point about bounce since they didnt think it was much of a big deal for some reason till then

**cphilip** · 03-10-2004, 06:35 PM

Originally posted by GoatBoy
I say do away with the rule and allow full auto.

Well in this last part... I disagree. "One Shot, One pull" I think is the best rule. I believe thats the safest way and I think it should be evenly enforced and carefully assessed at each and every tournament. Electronics that Q shots should of course be included in that scrutiny. Heavily so! That should be tested and looked for in them for certain. Not just bounce of trigger from reactivity. I can get rid of it and so can they. If not, then I or they do not use that marker. Thats my position on it.

**Jack & Coke** · 03-10-2004, 07:02 PM

The thing is this...

Automag RT, M98RT and A-5 RT can all achieve simulated full-auto via trigger bounce (sweet-spotting the trigger).

Pull the trigger all the way back on these guns and the gun ONLY shoots one ball. However, pull and hold with just enough finger pressure and the trigger can bounce with your finger on and off, causing the gun to fire multiple times without having to initiate a new full pull of the trigger. This is sweet-spotting the trigger and the effect of an RT style system.

This is the same exact thing that happens when you shoot an E-blade, Viking (hair trigger debounce 1), timmy, etc.

**Branchvillian** · 03-10-2004, 07:07 PM

Originally posted by GoatBoy

I say do away with the rule and allow full auto.

That cannot be done. In all honesty, most people can hit 17bps max, and not consistently. If I where to make my E-Mag full auto, or a mecahnical mag full auto....that would be like 30bps. Slap a q loader on it, and it would just be stupidly unfair.

**GoatBoy** · 03-10-2004, 07:16 PM

Originally posted by Branchvillian

That cannot be done. In all honesty, most people can hit 17bps max, and not consistently. If I where to make my E-Mag full auto, or a mecahnical mag full auto....that would be like 30bps. Slap a q loader on it, and it would just be stupidly unfair.

Yes. That would be stupidly unfair.

For about 3 seconds.

Then it'd just be stupid.

That's kind of why I'm all for it.

cphilip: I can see where you're coming from; I like the one-pull-one-shot myself, but like I said... it's getting to the point where it's neither enforceable nor realistic.

Oh, and please note: I never said 'do away with safety rules'; I fully support strict enforcement of penalties for overshooting. I'm not trying to go all psycho or anything.

J&C: There's the "technical" definition of "simulated full auto", and then there's the real world equivalent... "shooting really, really fast". Personally, I sort of don't make the distinction between the two. I've seen the A-5 F/A mode demonstrated to me, and maybe the guy didn't have things adjusted right, because I could pull my trigger faster than he went full auto.

**Chris42050** · 03-10-2004, 07:43 PM

Goatboy- Ive got 2 friends with A-5's and they can literally shoot almost twice as fast as my angel lcd. You have to get it dialed in right but once you do those guns rock.

**MayAMonkeyBeYourPinata** · 03-10-2004, 07:47 PM

Originally posted by GoatBoy

cphilip: I can see where you're coming from; I like the one-pull-one-shot myself, but like I said... it's getting to the point where it's neither enforceable nor realistic.

Oh, and please note: I never said 'do away with safety rules'; I fully support strict enforcement of penalties for overshooting. I'm not trying to go all psycho or anything.

The safety comes from the trigger gettin stuck, and continously firing, at someone, without the perosn meaning to.

**FallNAngel** · 03-10-2004, 07:47 PM

Originally posted by GoatBoy
That's kind of why I'm all for it.

[snip]

it's getting to the point where it's neither enforceable nor realistic.

[snip]

Oh, and please note: I never said 'do away with safety rules'; I fully support strict enforcement of penalties for overshooting.

You do realize that at shooting 30bps, you're able to hit someone 7.5 times for sticking their head out for 1/4 of a second, right? You want safe, yet you want to allow full auto. I can see someone coming around a bunker and only trying to tap the trigger but accidentally letting their marker go full auto on someone's back shooting them 10+ times. Trigger bounce is enforceable and realistic, it's just that no one is doing it.

If they wanted to, they (the NPPL, PSP, etc) could just ban WAS boards (which are widely known for their bounce and programming via the trigger). The refs could make sure that each player has tourney lock on and that each marker doesn't bounce. They could put stiffer penalties for cheating. They could do a lot of things... they just aren't.

**demonguy8** · 03-10-2004, 09:43 PM

I see nothing wrong with a 13bps Full auto ROF cap... Id wager this is easier to control than bounce issues where the players pulling his trigger semi auto at 15bps and shooting at 18-19....

Or even easier... Reinstate and actually ENFORCE the old rule about no FORCE FED LOADERS... instant 11.5bps rof cap..
but it will never happen... The business of selling newer faster pb stuff will always > the safety of the players...

Lift tournament ban on RT style guns?

Lift tournament ban on RT style guns?

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