Air America Tech Support

[Thordic]

Odd, I never had any problems with AA.

I had an old Vigilante that was 100% shot. I could not get the damn thing to stop creeping for the life of me. One shop told me I might as well throw it out as it was never going to work again.

I gave it to AA at IAO, picked it up at the end of the tournament, and it worked! No charge, no hassle. They replaced all the internals for free, even the adjuster nut. The only thing that stayed the same was the outer housing.

The problem is people are more likely to talk about bad experiences than good ones so a few people with bad experiences sounds like a majority when the majority is silent.

[Shykicker]

That's entirely possible. But people need to know when a company is capable of messing up three times with one customer. Apparently, I'm not the only one AA has flipped the tripple duece. It's important, when a customer buys on-line, to make the smallest gamble possible. AA seems to be pretty hit-and-miss about impressing their customers. Either they really impress, or they leave a fairly sour taste. I sincerely hope mine was the worst case scenario, but the more I hear, the more I doubt it.

There's no guarantee they'll muck it up, but there's also no guarantee that they won't. And in my case, it went down hill from there.

Originally posted by cphilip
Still creative as ever I see. I call em like I see em. You can try and twist it back around on me all you want. But your efforts to demean and belittle upon racial lines (which was never central to your story and unnessicary embelishments) remain no mater how you want to explain them.... No ones going to take the blame for them but you.

Calling them today.

Well, come on. Let's not be modest. You're every bit the spin doctor that I am. The only reason I'm still here (in this thread) is to untwist what you've twisted, to put it in your own ways.

Remember, Luke Holterman says "hi!" Also, could you get 'Bob's proper name? I should really like to know. He's the guy on tech support duty. I neglected to ask, last I called.

Now I'll just be off to get my $20.00 from various tank manufacturers for slandering their opponents. No, wait, I've got a better one! I'm off to visit my close friend in the hospital who lost a hand from an exploding Air America tank. No, better yet, better yet! I'm off ro bed to brood over my ex who was cheating on me with an Air America sales rep! Yeah, that's a keeper motive.

If you think of a better one, let me know. I'll just go with whatever sounds the best.

[cphilip]

LOL... I like your creativity if that helps ya feel better. Will say hello to Bob for ya. Also will get a list of illegal immigrants for you...

[lord1234]

don't some of the AA techs troll these forums? We want the guy in the dress(errrr kilt)!!!

[Shykicker]

You wouldn't mind if I put that apology in my sig, would you? Looking forward to it.

[Shane-O-Mac]

KILT MAN HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ok, i havent called the factory and discussed this little conundrum yet.
BUT here's my 10bucks worth on the subject.

S***KYCKER or what ever your name is, here is some hard facts.

1: AA does test EVERY system that goes outthe door. i know it, as i have spent days there and watching how they operate.

2. sometimes, systems do not work after they are sent back to you. i have seen this happen, and guess what? IT HAPPENS, no other explaination is needed. ever hear the term, bad things happen to good people?

3. everyone should physicaly call them when needing tech support or warranty work, why? because the tech can get more info about what is really going on. emailing back and forth can be counter productive. as it takes way to long to fully get to the root of the problem. (maybe not in your case, but anyway)

4. NOW, how about the hard facts of your statements? exactly how long from time sent in to time sent back? show some proof, not just tell someone about it. if you accuse anyone of terrible service, you had better have the facts present and ready to show, or the B.S. flag goes up. facts talk buddy. show them.

5. you are obviously over-educated, why do i say that? because as well as you write and debate, you fail to realise that using the term "niggardly" will anger many people, because not many people know that that term does not imply race. consider all of us idiots, when you bust out the websters big book ok? and such LARGE words are not needed. YOU just wanted to tell you SAD, SAD story and you wanted to make it funny, and belittling. any idiot can see that, even ME.

OK, now the tech stuff.

1. does anyone REALLY belive that any company that has a warranty, will just return ship your product to you with out testing it at least? why waste the money on return shipping it to you? why not just tell you to get stuffed? dont send it in? you have a brain use it. assuming that they didnt do anything, is the easy way out. being upset that it wasnt fixed the first time is normal, and expected. but you only barely acknowledged, that they did try and compensate you and try and make it up to you.

2. ok if it was just a fill nipple, then why in heavens name didnt you just say so in the first place? when you say to a tech person, "my system has a leak" there could be a dozen different problems. if you say my fill nipple is leaking, I would say, fine let me check it, and i will replace it. OR, you could have had your local guy that ended up fixing it, fix it in the first place. I am not saying that that is what you should have done, but did you see if someone could fix it locally, easily with out shipping it anywhere?

3. there was a bad batch of reg seats in the run of "the reg", so any "the reg" system that comes in gets a full testing, to make sure the seat is good and doesnt creep. that takes time, about 3 days to be exact. the system is filled, and put on a tester and left for 2 days or more to see that it holds pressure and doesnt creep. so more time is spent making sure that your system is working properly.

4. maybe whomever was filling your tank is doing it improperly? something to consider, because if AA filled it, and tested it (which i am positive they did)why did it not leak for them?

5. when you sent it to them, was it clear that all the problem was, was a leaking fill nipple? or did you just say, my tank leaks, fix it?

So, mr kycker, i do belive that NO one owes you an apology, and if apologies were to be made, then they should be to AA, for the degrading comments YOU made. They made apologies to you and tried to make it right with you, so what was really the problem? dont know, I can not filter all the ignorant comments, from the facts. the only problem i see, is that your air system didnt work as expected, BUT the company DID try and take care of you. go do a search (here in AO) on AKA and a problem that cledford (i think) had with AKA. there final responce to the problem? heres your money dont ever call us again and dont buy our product. did you get that kind of service? so all in all, try and be more understanding, rather than take the pbnation method of whining to everyone that will listen. CACA happens, it is the distance that soemone will go to make it right, thats important.

Shane-O

b.t.w. i will be waiting for a public apology to AA for the derogatory comments. so i guess you and i will be waiting awhile for our apologies huh?

[Duke Henry]

my bad experience with them

Just to correlate with the title of the thread, here is my experience with AA recently. Years ago, I had great experiences with them (2 in total) which is why a few years ago I purchased another AA tank).

I have an AA apoc 2k that tends to leak over long periods of time. Now, I know it is not the tank itself that is leaking, since it passed hydro without problem.

I however think it has something to do with my on/off or the basic reg itself, since the on/off is hard to turn and perhaps is not turning off or something since it seems to NOT leak if I use it for an entire day (in the ON position). I will end up pulling the reg apart and taking a look at it, but I digress...

Anyway, I explained this in emails and in a letter I included with my tank when I sent it across the border to AA. Anyway, I got it back and it still leaks. There was no note, no nothing with it, I just received an email telling me that it was fixed and on its way back.

Well, after getting hit with $150 in brokerage charges, and the problem was never resolved, why would I want to send it in again? I can't wait another 3 weeks or so and play sans-tank, so basically I just dumped $150 into the hole in the ground that is customs.

Will I buy another AA tank again? No, I will head down to my local shop and take a look at an Evil Scion or perhaps a preset for my Matrix - I can't afford to stick with AA.

[cphilip]

Excellent post Shane-O-Mac. The things you note about fill nipple leaking are exacty where I was suspicious. Thats a user service item that tends to be a problem. If you sift through all the creative writing that has nothing to do with the issue thats what you get. And if you look close enough you see he says they sent him a fill nipple cover the second time. I think that was a hint... But he makes light of that gift. But it is a message I think.

Update: Now as for calling them.... JJ did that for me this morning (just a little while ago) and talked to Ted because JJ knows Ted fairly well and JJ is local. Ted is more or less not wanting to dig through old records to try and find the tech notes. Ted thinks I am stupid for arguing with some kid on the internet. And that for certain I have to agree with! LOL.. but sometimes I just can't help myself!!! However I just appeal to him again to please look for me. Course I don't blame him if he doesn't want to..but we will just have to wait and see if he is willing to do it. I have not heard back from him a second time yet.

But if he doesn't then I will be left to assume some things and some of those will not be assumed in AA's favor unless they want to rebut. Fair warning AA!

Regardless...I do believe AA is owed an apology for the unkind remarks about people that work there. If they turn out to be incompetent then its not got anything to do with nationality. Its simply incompetence. Perhaps aided with lack of communcation from both parties but without thier side of it I am left to assume to many things.

So I wait to hear back from Ted again...

[Shane-O-Mac]

Duke: sorry to hear about the bad experiance. i wish they had a repair center in canada. many tanks loose pressure while sitting. my tanks will lose 2000psi in two weeks sometimes, but a leak can never be found. sometimes it is so small a leak you cannot find it, or it is an intermitant leak, that usally doesnt show itself when you are looking for it. (works with cars and strange noises too). I actually just deal with it, as i have tried to repair it, (i have all parts needed) and finally gave up, and didnt worry (but i get free air fills). BUT many people have limited access to air fills and want their tank to hold all the air it can, so they arent losing any, which is understandable. Good luck finding another tank that fits your needs. (not meant to be rude)

Shane-O

[cphilip]

Ok Ted is on the case. Later today he is going to get the info as best he can. And review all the posts. Without directly getting involved he will pass that onto me.

In the mean time he wrote this:

Regarding the "Illegal Immigrants", I have no idea where that came from
other then to try and build some character into his "story". Everyone he
spoke with here is 3-4 generation AMERICANS!.

Yes my fore fathers hailed from other countries but so did Enrico Fermi, Leo Szilard, Stanislaw Ulam, Albert Einstein, Edward Teller, Hans Bethe, Emillio Serge, John Von Neuman, James Franck and Eugene Wigner and if it wasn't for them we'd most likely be speak Japanese right now. So you can thank Mr. Holterman (German by the way, isn't it?) for putting us in such an elite class. Oh BTW did you know that the majority of winners of the Nobel Prize for Physics are also "Immigrants"

I think thats very well put. VERY good points there and well written.

[tyrion2323]

No offense CPhil, but I think that you're seeing something that isn't there. I don't think that ShytKicker was attempting to be racist in any way. Yeah, he could have worded a few things differently, but his story was fairly universal.

I know that it really, really sucks to call up a company's tech support and not be able to understand what the heck they're saying. I don't believe myself to be a racist at all, and I can point to the fact that I come from a liberal state (VT) and I worked with the Progressive Party and the Vermont Democracy Fund (check 'em out if you need) AND I maintain ties with the Latin Student Union, the Black Student Union and the Moslem Language Club to prove it.

With that said, I still believe that, if you're working a Customer Service job in America, you should be able to speak English fluently. The same goes for anywhere. If I went to France and tried to work as a customer service associate, I should be able to speak French fluently. Or German in Germany, or Hebrew in Israel, or whatever.

Peace,

Jacob

[Butterfingers]

ShyKicker... I think Cphilip is saying you need to get off your high horse... it kinda irritates people and rubs people the wrong way. Its kinda unpleasant actually.

Rub people the wrong way they tend to be very critical with you.

Debate it all you want that's reality.

[tyrion2323]

I'll go back and read it again; however, I really think that ShytKicker was just trying to present a frustrating situation in a humorous way. (sp. on humorous?)

Perhaps I am wrong. However, I can remember a post that CPhil made in the Civil War Paintball thread where he said he wanted to defend the 'gentlemanly South" or something like that.

I'm guessing that Phil is probably not pro-slavery; however, it kinda reads the same way. Just a thought.

[Shykicker]

Originally posted by Shane-O-Mac
KILT MAN HERE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ok, i havent called the factory and discussed this little conundrum yet.

Maybe you should have done that first then. If anything, it will save YOU an apology.

1: AA does test EVERY system that goes outthe door. i know it, as i have spent days there and watching how they operate.

Yes, that certianly is what they've said in their EMails. Which leads me to wonder why they couldn't do so little as put their ear to the fill nipple. But... this is assuming they filled it at all in the first place. And yes, I know the party line, that they even flash fill their tanks to ensure that they can withstand it. I've heard that twice straight from their mouths.

2. sometimes, systems do not work after they are sent back to you. i have seen this happen, and guess what? IT HAPPENS, no other explaination is needed. ever hear the term, bad things happen to good people?

Oh, yeah, that'd be a killer PR line. "Air America: Where bad things happen to good people."

I think I've made it revoltingly clear that I had the patience to deal with recieving it broken twice. The thrid time, I didn't see the point in sending it back again. Ever hear the term "Three strikes and you're out?" Get with the program, here.

3. everyone should physicaly call them when needing tech support or warranty work, why? because the tech can get more info about what is really going on. emailing back and forth can be counter productive. as it takes way to long to fully get to the root of the problem. (maybe not in your case, but anyway)

Heh. Yeah. Some of us communicate more efficiently in writing. Some of us work durring "regular business hours." I am both of those, so it was most convenient for me to use EMail. Besides that, I don't know how many ways you need to say "I put it in water and bubbles came out the fill nipple." Or "I put it to my ear, and it said "Shhhhhhhhhhh!" This isn't rocket science here. Again, it's something my pro-shop guy diagnosed and fixxed in under ten minutes.

4. NOW, how about the hard facts of your statements? exactly how long from time sent in to time sent back? show some proof, not just tell someone about it. if you accuse anyone of terrible service, you had better have the facts present and ready to show, or the B.S. flag goes up. facts talk buddy. show them.

Proof, ey? You want the UPS Box labels? Lessee, I ordered it in February 2003, recieved it, finally, in may 2003 (thanks in part to a lengthy delay in backorders, and also in part to Deb ignoring one of my Emails), sent it back early March 2003, got it back around mid-March, and didn't play for a while. Spent most of the summer either working, on vacation, or fine-tuning my art portfilio, and sent it back in early June (I didn't really have the money to play at the time anyway, between work, school, and having spent a week in Florida.) And then commenced EMails with 'Bob' in mid-december, and had to wait for 'bob' who was, understandably, unreachable at Christmas, but neglected to check his EMails uppon his return. So Mid-January, Bob's UPS guy picks up the tank, and I don't think I heard from it again until Late January/Early February (Edit: Correction: 02-05-04, according to the postmark). Filled the tank up, obviously, some time between then and Feb 11. and my Airsmith charged me $10.00 to REALLY fix it.

5. you are obviously over-educated, why do i say that? because as well as you write and debate, you fail to realise that using the term "niggardly" will anger many people, because not many people know that that term does not imply race. consider all of us idiots, when you bust out the websters big book ok? and such LARGE words are not needed. YOU just wanted to tell you SAD, SAD story and you wanted to make it funny, and belittling. any idiot can see that, even ME.

See also my disclaimer at the top of the page. It's there expressely for idiots.

1. does anyone REALLY belive that any company that has a warranty, will just return ship your product to you with out testing it at least? why waste the money on return shipping it to you? why not just tell you to get stuffed? dont send it in? you have a brain use it. assuming that they didnt do anything, is the easy way out. being upset that it wasnt fixed the first time is normal, and expected. but you only barely acknowledged, that they did try and compensate you and try and make it up to you.

No, no not really. They DID fix SOMETHING each time. I think the first time, it was a cup seal. Which did nothing for the problem, when they tried it, aswell as when MY airsmith tried it. Fact: They DID replace the cupseal. Fact: they did send it back. Fact: it returned with the same audiable leak, only minus the rubber fill nipple cover (WHICH THEY LATER CALLED A "possible cause" OF THE PROBLEM! That THEY neglected to put the fill nipple cover back on. Seer moronity.) Just give me a little benefit ala doubt here, and assume these facts are all true- and they are- what is your best assumption? That they passed it off as a broken cup seal and were done with it.

2. ok if it was just a fill nipple, then why in heavens name didnt you just say so in the first place? when you say to a tech person, "my system has a leak" there could be a dozen different problems. if you say my fill nipple is leaking, I would say, fine let me check it, and i will replace it. OR, you could have had your local guy that ended up fixing it, fix it in the first place. I am not saying that that is what you should have done, but did you see if someone could fix it locally, easily with out shipping it anywhere?

Ohhhh lordy, lordy, lordy. This one is dense.

You think that someone as detailed and thourough as myself (You've READ this thread, haven't you?) just kind of sent the the one-liner EMail "my tank has a leak." Do you honestly believe that for a second? I specified the place of the leak, I specified the time of the leak, how long it took, at the very least, to fully empty out, and pretty much every other detail I could fathom from the outside of the tank.

Please, please, please, think before posting further. PLEASE. And then think again, just incase. I don't know where you got "my tank has a leak" from a relatively verbose guy like myself, but it wasn't me. If you want to ask, by all means ask, but don't barge in here and twiddle ignorant assumptions at me.

3. there was a bad batch of reg seats in the run of "the reg", so any "the reg" system that comes in gets a full testing, to make sure the seat is good and doesnt creep. that takes time, about 3 days to be exact. the system is filled, and put on a tester and left for 2 days or more to see that it holds pressure and doesnt creep. so more time is spent making sure that your system is working properly.

One step ahead of you. The second time I sent it in, they replaced the reg seat. And apparently, spent just as much time testing it as they had before (read: zippo.) I'm just glad these are not auto mechanics.

Or who knows, for that matter. Maybe they are.

4. maybe whomever was filling your tank is doing it improperly? something to consider, because if AA filled it, and tested it (which i am positive they did)why did it not leak for them?

MY GOD, DO YOU WORK FOR AIR AMERICA?

That was their first 'possible cause' of my problems (meaning, roughly, "anything but us"), especially because they assumed, with no epmyrical testing, that it was a broken cup seal, and that it had been flash filled. So the next time, I went an hout's drive out to a diffirent air smith, and watched him super-carefully. Trust me, he could not have gone any slower. And, of course, small coincidence that after replacing the fill nipple, suddenly everyone could fill it again.

5. when you sent it to them, was it clear that all the problem was, was a leaking fill nipple? or did you just say, my tank leaks, fix it?

You should really ask this question before you accuse me of it, like you just did back at question 2.

For one, it's a little known fact that you can make audiable the sound of a leaking fill nipple by covering it with a fill nipple cover. It begins to whistle. When you take it off, the whistling stops. What's more, I submerged it in water, and guess where the bubbles came out. My home boy, the fill nipple.

So, mr kycker, i do belive that NO one owes you an apology, and if apologies were to be made, then they should be to AA, for the degrading comments YOU made.

Sorry? Come again? Are you native a little blue plannet with green spots on it? Can you at least see it out your window?

They made apologies to you and tried to make it right with you, so what was really the problem?

1. They failed.

2. They failed miserably, at that. Three times.

3. It was a ten minute job, provided you know what your're doing.

4. They misdiagnosed the problem, and pretended my tank was fixed, each time sending it back with an identical problem. Can they not afford a bucker with water, or what?

go do a search (here in AO) on AKA and a problem that cledford (i think) had with AKA. there final responce to the problem? heres your money dont ever call us again and dont buy our product. did you get that kind of service?

No, but a refund is more useful than a malfunctioning tank. At least one of them is worth something. I had actually posed the question of a refund in one of my last EMails to them, and I never heard back from them. I'm just assuming that my useless warranty is void for going to an outside airsmith, and they don't want to deal with it anymore. Even if not, I'm not sending it back, nor do I need to EMail them any further. They're not actually good for DOING anything in my experience.

Listen, it's nice that you want me to appreciate their effort in "trying" to fix my tank, two times, but I didn't pay for their effort and a leaky tank. I don't think you're going to appreciate a plumber who doesn't fix your toilet and charges you anyway for "trying." Nice try, but that's not how the exchange of money for goods and services works. It's called "fraud" and "false advertising." Not that I care.

CACA happens, it is the distance that soemone will go to make it right, thats important.

Or the distance they fail to go, for that matter. IE producing a working HPA tank in one of three tries. As for "understanding," they've already admitted to me what a horrible botch-up job it was over the phone, and that they would get it to me fixxed. They never did, and so I passed on their evaluation. In my own terms.

b.t.w. i will be waiting for a public apology to AA for the derogatory comments. so i guess you and i will be waiting awhile for our apologies huh?

I dun think so. The customer does not owe the incompetant staff appologies. I think it goes the other way around. And it did.

Originally posted by Butterfingers
ShyKicker... I think Cphilip is saying you need to get off your high horse... it kinda irritates people and rubs people the wrong way. Its kinda unpleasant actually.

Rub people the wrong way they tend to be very critical with you.

Debate it all you want that's reality.

Funny, I'm very much the same way. Take a gander at yon first page and tell me who attacked who's credibility first. I don't think there's a horse higher than dictating truth and fiction in the confines of pure ignorance.

[cphilip]

Those are valid points tyrion2323. May be he ment it to make the story more humerous. Except when challenged on it he doesn't say that... He could have... But he doesn't admit ever that he embellished the story to be humerous or for any other reason. Nor does he admit its embellished AT ALL!

And as the last reference. That was a bunch of us getting into character for the Civil war re enactment scenario game. And admittedly ment for humor. No one would have read that into it, but if it they did I would certainly appologise for that. Will do so right now if need be. Assuming anyone took it to mean that.

I however do not see the same issue at all here with something like a Character role playing. He is claiming to relate a true story....

Butter makes the point very well. Exactly!

I gonna keep giving you AA stuff from time to time. Dig a hole for me will ya?