35 bps, What?

[lysdexic]

Originally posted by tony3


Yeah that makes sense....not. Fire 35 balls at something, and then fire 10, you have a better chance of hitting something at 35 bps, whether you like to admit or not.

Edit for spelling

Clearly you do not understand the concept of "diminishing returns". Fire 30 rounds at single aiming point you will notice many rounds will hit on the same paint mark of previous rounds - those rounds are effectively wasted rounds - the more rounds you fire at a single aiming point the fewer will hit unmarked space. There comes a point where most of the rounds are just hitting marked space, that is when you are wasting more rounds than you are using effectively.

Though you are right that more rounds downrange increases the chance you will hit "something" I suspect you know little about probability as well.

Spraying a whole bunch of rounds downrange hoping to hit "something" is not a very effective technique, but Good luck with it.

[Z-man]

I would state just the opposite.

In the first place what you aim at is not necessarily what you hit. As even the most novice player notices. The first ball they shoot may hit the bunker while the second skips over the top while the third clips the edge etc...

Since paintballs are inherently inaccurate the most effective and "sure-fire" method IS TO SHOOT many shots at the same area.

In addition, what you are shooting at is not stationary. If you can put 30 balls in the air in 1 sec you have a much better chance at hitting a guy who is popping out back and forth on a 5 inch square of space than if you put 5 rounds at him. That is plain and simple logic.

In addition there is the human error to think about. I don't know about you but I cannot hit what I am aiming at when I am running or even walking on the first shot in general. Because I may be aiming wrong or a little off, why not compensate by covering the whole area with rounds?

The only arguments I can see anyone make is that it's expensive (yes it is) and perhaps not as sophisticated as pulling a James Bond.

[spadge67]

Originally posted by HotBallz87
they sell lithium ions for remote control cars, but with 6 AA cells of them, youll have 21.6 to your hopper, 1 cell is 3.6 volts, where i get them, i think. wouldnt that many volts break your hopper? or would it make it feed faster?

you might have to factor in some heatsink action with that one, kind of like overclocking your hopper...

[tony3]

Originally posted by lysdexic


Clearly you do not understand the concept of "diminishing returns". Fire 30 rounds at single aiming point you will notice many rounds will hit on the same paint mark of previous rounds - those rounds are effectively wasted rounds - the more rounds you fire at a single aiming point the fewer will hit unmarked space. There comes a point where most of the rounds are just hitting marked space, that is when you are wasting more rounds than you are using effectively.
Though you are right that more rounds downrange increases the chance you will hit "something" I suspect you know little about probability as well.
Spraying a whole bunch of rounds downrange hoping to hit "something" is not a very effective technique, but Good luck with it.

Well, I shoot at bunkers and keep shooting to 1. Keep the person in and 2. maybe he'll pop out and some of my balls will hit him.

I don't know your playing style, maybe you like to wait for open shots and fire pretty slowly and take your time, I don't know. Usually, I want to be firing a lot so they are staying in their bunkers, even if I'm just hitting their bunkers, its still going to keep them in. When you are shooting 30 bps, you aren't worrying about hitting people as much as you are worried about just keeping them in and hoping a few balls hit them if they try to snap you out. So far, my technique works good for me and many other players, please explain your "technique".

[bleachit]

Originally posted by lysdexic

Spraying a whole bunch of rounds downrange hoping to hit "something" is not a very effective technique, but Good luck with it.

"Accuracy by volume has been, and will remain, the best way to score eliminations. "
-Tom Kaye

[lysdexic]

Perhaps it is my backround. I have been playing paintball for 16 years and been in the Army for 14 years. I have developed a number of skills that players who have picked up paintball on mostly speedball fields may not have learned. I have seen some Extremely talented teams just walk toward the opposing team firing an extrordinalrily high volume of paint. Most of the players were simply pinning the opposing players down while two were moving quickly to bunker and score eliminations. It was very impressive. It was also dissapointing to me. I believe the old school style of play is much more enjoyable.

However, I did not claim that there was no advantage to high volume of fire. CLearly there is. My point is that the amount of advantage gained is diminished for every round fired so that, at some point, the advantage of firing another round at a specific point is not worth much at all. That was my argument on diminishing returns. If you are a sponsored team with unlimited paint and air then have fun. However, I think firing 10-12 rps will almost as effective at keeping someone pinned down as 30. In fact when you consider that you will go through a hopper in about 6 seconds (at 30) versus 17 seconds (at 10-12) then it could be argued that 10-12 is more effective because it means you do not have to reload as often and you do not give him an oppurtunity to regain the initiative and pin you down.

[tony3]

Well, personally, no one will ever get 30 bps, without some kind of cheater software, lots of guns at 30 bps will start getting noticable shootdown also. Sure, guys will stay in their bunkers with 10 bps coming at them. I have played guys that are amazing snapshooters and 10 can't hold them in, they are in and out so fast its amazing. 10 can work, but there are definitely times when I personally have played guys that can snapshoot when 13 balls are coming at them. Sure, I'd play "old school" with a slower rof if thats what everyone else was playing with, but its silly to put myself at a disadvantage for no reason at all. I can afford to shoot 15-17 bps, so why not?

[Z-man]

Originally posted by lysdexic
However, I think firing 10-12 rps will almost as effective at keeping someone pinned down as 30. In fact when you consider that you will go through a hopper in about 6 seconds (at 30) versus 17 seconds (at 10-12) then it could be argued that 10-12 is more effective because it means you do not have to reload as often and you do not give him an oppurtunity to regain the initiative and pin you down.

That I would 100% aggree on. I ask it in a question form. Would you stick your head out of a bunker if 6 balls were hitting that spot every second?

No

So why do you need to shoot 26 every second?

I can also see how it would be a bit discouraging to see that:

1- most games come down to the ability to accruately and quickly throw paint

2- within the boundaries of an airball field, that probably IS the best technique.

Ever played senario games? I hear they offer exactly what you seek. I need to try one sometime too.

[No sKiLLz]

Originally posted by lysdexic
Perhaps it is my backround. I have been playing paintball for 16 years and been in the Army for 14 years. I have developed a number of skills that players who have picked up paintball on mostly speedball fields may not have learned. I have seen some Extremely talented teams just walk toward the opposing team firing an extrordinalrily high volume of paint. Most of the players were simply pinning the opposing players down while two were moving quickly to bunker and score eliminations. It was very impressive. It was also dissapointing to me. I believe the old school style of play is much more enjoyable.

However, I did not claim that there was no advantage to high volume of fire. CLearly there is. My point is that the amount of advantage gained is diminished for every round fired so that, at some point, the advantage of firing another round at a specific point is not worth much at all. That was my argument on diminishing returns. If you are a sponsored team with unlimited paint and air then have fun. However, I think firing 10-12 rps will almost as effective at keeping someone pinned down as 30. In fact when you consider that you will go through a hopper in about 6 seconds (at 30) versus 17 seconds (at 10-12) then it could be argued that 10-12 is more effective because it means you do not have to reload as often and you do not give him an oppurtunity to regain the initiative and pin you down.

Vertex shedding is random, therefore the number of paintballs it takes to reach the point of diminishing returns is random. There's no way to predict if it will take 10 or 100 shots to saturate an area, and even if you reached that point, unless the target held still the whole time, there's a good chance he would have ducked and you would have to start counting over again.

Shoot more paint faster.

[bleachit]

lysdexic, you may be interested in this thread.

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=120530

over in the deep blue forum, it discusses the law of diminishing returns. personally, I think accuracy by volume has its place, so does aiming.

[50 cal]

It doesn't matter if someone can outshoot it. People will buy it cause it's 35bps. Same way with guns. It won't matter a bit if you can get it to cycle 100 cyles per sec. Someone will buy it.