Steyr AUG Marker

[dansim]

I figured you be watching this thread....


What is more damaging and dangerous? The fool with the neon Spyder or the fool with the sim-AK47?

the neon spyder because it was probally bought at walmart by a thug, while the sim ak will be at least a 450 investment, not exactly the kinda dough you drop for vandilism

i see absolutely no problem seeing markers that look like real guns, as long as all markers are used responsibley there wont be any problems

[Sir_Brass]

the neon spyder because it was probally bought at walmart by a thug, while the sim ak will be at least a 450 investment, not exactly the kinda dough you drop for vandilism

i see absolutely no problem seeing markers that look like real guns, as long as all markers are used responsibley there wont be any problems

THis is my take on the issue (in a nutshell. part of my full stance is in my dissertation on the previous page ) as well. Milsim markers are far too expensive for your average brainless idiot to pick up, whereas a cheap spyder is.

And what I see as MORE of a problem is that the brainless idiot could very likely pickup a sear tripping electro at walmart. now he can cause even MORE damage with it. That's much more dangerous than a guy picking up a mechanical wg-65 and paying $450 for it.

[Z-man]

This is the community that uses the realistic markers you folks think are such a bad idea. This is why I say you are wrong. B/c the realistic marker demands a more responsible owner, and as it turns out, the guys who DO own realistic markers are among the breed of paintballers who are VERY responsible owners.

And I would aggree 100% with that. Those things are not cheap and the people who buy them are most likely going to be that kind.

key words most likely

the neon spyder because it was probally bought at walmart by a thug, while the sim ak will be at least a 450 investment, not exactly the kinda dough you drop for vandilism.

A fool is a fool. Who might the police shoot if they see that? not the Spyder...

[dansim]

A fool is a fool. Who might the police shoot if they see that? not the Spyder...

i can almost guarantee(sp) both people would get shot if placed in similar situations

[Z-man]

And what I see as MORE of a problem is that the brainless idiot could very likely pickup a sear tripping electro at walmart. now he can cause even MORE damage with it. That's much more dangerous than a guy picking up a mechanical wg-65 and paying $450 for it.

See now that is not the issue as I see it. If you were worried about how fast someone can shoot a marker thus hurting more people in a shorter time then you would have to argue against fast cheap electros. but see you are missing my point.

REAL LOOKING GUNS CAN= POLICE SHOOT YOU

fools can buy a cheap gun or an expensive gun and shoot people. I see it as more of a "do you see a differnce bewteen simply arresting them vs. ending them all together?"

This is not about shooting more paint this is about getting shot for running around with a sim-marker

[Z-man]

i can almost guarantee(sp) both people would get shot if placed in similar situations

The police can shoot you for shooting at people with a paint gun? Can any law enforcement people comment?

[Sir_Brass]

But as of yet no milsim marker has been used for vandalism. And I think that the police would be likely to shoot the vandal with the spyder b/c w/o proper protection, a paintball gun has the ability to be deadly if you're hit in the right spot, and much more likely to cause grievous injury (loose an eye).

The thing is that the milsim marker is simply too expensive to be much of a threat for vandalism. The cheap syder is. THe fact is that the cheap syder IS a current tool-of-choice for a pball vandal, whereas the milsim marker is not.

Until there's a problem with milsim markers getting people into trouble, then don't worry about it. Worry about the problems at hand. And I can tell you that the cheap walmart spyder is FAR more of a problem than any milsim marker.

[cphilip]

But as of yet no milsim marker has been used for vandalism.

You would be foolish to think thats is so. A lot of vandalism occurs and no one ever knows the looks of the paintball marker involved. And if it has not happened it WILL happen. (thats one of Calvins points... no one distinguishes)

Oh sure.. your likely to get shot anyway. No matter the marker. If the Policeman thinks his life is in danger and cannot tell.... then your dead. But there is a tiny bit of chance that he is going to be able to recognise a red emag with tank hanging off of it as a paintball marker. And MAYBE he will chose to wait. If he sees one like that one shown at the begining of this thread where the tank is hidden inside and it looks EXACTLY like a gun I suspect that slim chance is now NONE.

Thats all I am saying here. Not that they will not shoot you. But there might be a chance if its odd looking and has a visible tank and all. Maybe....

[00Buckshot]

http://www.impactsites2000.com/site3/images2/tec9ls.jpg

[cphilip]

Welcome to AO!

Yea this is getting fun

As I see it we have two debates going on here...

Are they bad for the sport or are they bad for your health!

[Mckevern]

Hey Z-Man ... I think this might or might not help ..

Police will shoot a kid with a marker that looks real or not.

When it comes down to the bottom line, a marker CAN be dangerious.

Personally if someone is walking around in public with a marker, Mil-sim or not, they're begging to have problems with the police.

When you get right down to it, it isn't the marker that will get the person shot, it is the person.

If a cop feels like he is in a threating situation he will use lethal force. If the idiot with a marker starts pointing it around ... he'll get shot .... maybe in the arm, leg, or even a sucking chest wound, but the idiot will get shot.

[cphilip]

Police will shoot a kid with a marker that looks real or not.

When it comes down to the bottom line, a marker CAN be dangerious.

Personally if someone is walking around in public with a marker, Mil-sim or not, they're begging to have problems with the police.

When you get right down to it, it isn't the marker that will get the person shot, it is the person.

If a cop feels like he is in a threating situation he will use lethal force. If the idiot with a marker starts pointing it around ... he'll get shot .... maybe in the arm, leg, or even a sucking chest wound, but the idiot will get shot.

Not only that but possible a Darwin Award candidate too!

That I think is the point. Sometime we get caught up in the distinction. And the some of you are pointing out that maybe we should not be. We make distinctions that the rest of the world maybe does not. Perhaps I am guilty of that myself.

[Sir_Brass]

http://www.impactsites2000.com/site3/images2/tec9ls.jpg

Can I expect to see you at D-Day 2004? If so, drop by the TTM campsite (we'll be very easy to find, and most of us will be in the Allied 2nd Ranger battalion ), and hang out .

I think the point you brought up was very valid in that any paintball gun and RESEMBLE a gun at night. Now, an experienced officer might NOT shoot, but who can tell with a less experienced one. That's why I said that the kid with the spyder is more likely to get shot, b/c it's more likely that a cop will encounter a paintball vandal with a syder than he will with a kid toting a very expensive and high quality milsim marker for use in vandalism, and it's also more likely that the cop will be of less experience and thus more likely to see the outline of what LOOKS INITIALLY like an assault weapon and pull the trigger.


For the debaters:
My take is the bottomline is that the marker doesn't matter. You shouldn't be toting one out and around in public like that. If you're just transporting the marker, then use a case. Doesn't matter if it's an emag or an ATS AT-16. Both are likely to get you shot if you're seen by a cop at night with either in your hands. Remember, his combat instincts will kick into gear and if he sees what AT FIRST looks like a firearm, he will be more likely to shoot. And ALL paintball markers resemble firearms enough for a cop to be warry when he sees on at night and sees more shadows than clear pictures.

[The Deacon]

Police are trained to shoot last. Taking a life is the final solution.

I remember a long time ago when I was playing in National Forest land with an AT-85 (pretty realistic). Some cops came over, so we halted the game, and they were very casual. They even complimented me on my marker. They simply told us that if we heard sirens, just come out with our markers in the air (they loved the full auto on it ,too! ).

How can you get shot using a marker? On an established field this is a non-issue. For outlaw ball, you'd pull up to the scene with the pat pat pat pat in the background with kids in masks and about 1000 other things that kill the "holy crap, there's a gun fight going on! theory" Seriously, even if a kid does crank a shot or 2 off at a cop, how can you not notice the PAT PAT as compared to the blast of a gun? The paint splotch is pretty apparent, too. Cops know, they're paid to know. The most a civilian would do is call a cop, and again, they're paid to know.

I used to use "milsim" markers, but they were too limiting to my varied playstyle. I do know that for a kid that wants to recklessly vandalize crap, even 100 bucks is too much. I'd be more concerned about vandals using cheap airsoft guns than a paintball marker, since you can get 'em on E-bay for well under 100 bucks.

[Sir_Brass]

Right, you're talking about in a playing enviroment where it's obvious that the cops will know what's going on. And I totally agree with you.

However, the scenario I'm referring to is on the street with someone walking out in the open with a paintball marker. IN this situation the person is either a vandal looking to do damage or just a plain idiot who it toting his gun around in the open when he shouldn't be. In this situation, the cop is going to be far more warry and more suspecting of the person. I know I would be.