Steyr AUG Marker

[00Buckshot]

Can I expect to see you at D-Day 2004? If so, drop by the TTM campsite (we'll be very easy to find, and most of us will be in the Allied 2nd Ranger battalion ), and hang out .

Yep. I'll be there, although I hope you don't mind hanging with some Germans - I was going to try out for the Rangers, but this year with our product it seamed to fit - Steyr, Austria... anyway we will be arriving Wednesday morning and camping the week. I'll look for you.

[The Deacon]

Jeez, you people read/type too fast.

First question is, WHAT ARE YOU DOING? Any and every responsible paintball player knows to not run around the neighborhood with your marker.

If you're dumb enough to go out and vandalize property in the first place, I hate to say it, but you have it coming. Most vandals are out for thrills, and if the cops show, they turn into the blubbering, cooperative "I'm sorry, just please don't tell my parents!" types.

[Mckevern]

Deacon ... I'll pass on a story for you ..

I was playing some outlawball as you call it back in the day before Semi's hit the market. I still remember the day when I was at Paintball Sam's with my KP3 when Tom walked in with his AutoMag.

Anyway ... living out in Crystal Lake IL, we had PLENTY of forest and grasslands that didn't belong to anyone and was literally IN THE MIDDLE OF NO WHERE ...

One day I'm sitting in a ditch waiting to spring a trap when I hear two people walking up behind me.

Lucky for me I knew I was the only one there and everyone else was in front of me. If I thought someone was sneaking up behind I wouldn't be typing here today.

I glanced over my shoulder expecting to see some people out walking their dog, or some people hiking, or who knows what. But I was going to ask them to stop while I warn everyone else that was playing out there.

What was really behind me was two police officers in full riot gear with mossberg's .... and they were not pointing them in the air.

To say I almost soiled myself in two different ways is not far from the truth.

Before they said anything to me, I slowly put my KP off to the side by the barrel and lay down with my hands over my head. All the while telling them it's just paintball ....

From that moment on, I stopped playing outlaw ball. The only way I will ever play it again is if it is out in the middle of nowhere AND is private property.

I will also NEVER carry my WG65, 98C, A5, Pro-Lite, PMI 1, PMI LB, KP3, Zeus and RT Pro out in public unless it's in a case, box, or huge locker box. I will also only fill my tanks at the field. That way if I were to get pulled over they can't accuse me of anything because their not powered.

Even if it is a paintball marker, it CAN shoot other projectiles. I know one person that I stop playing with was able to put a Chap-Stik through dry wall with his Nelspot, makes you wonder what today's markers can do. This is the first time admitting this, but my friends and I organized for this kid to loose his paintball marker and never get it back. He was just to unpredictable and a danger to us for him to have one.

[The Deacon]

What I would have to say is were you shot? Are you dead because of your marker? Would you have shot at them? Neither would any sane person. Compliance is key.

[Sir_Brass]

Even if it is a paintball marker, it CAN shoot other projectiles. I know one person that I stop playing with was able to put a Chap-Stik through dry wall with his Nelspot, makes you wonder what today's markers can do. This is the first time admitting this, but my friends and I organized for this kid to loose his paintball marker and never get it back. He was just to unpredictable and a danger to us for him to have one.

A friend of mine told me last year about a friend of his shooting marbles out of a paintball marker. My friend told me that those marbles could SHATTER solid wooden fence posts !

[Mckevern]

Deacon, you're right ..

I wasn't shot then, and I haven't now.

My point is that if I was a tad less intelligent, I might have spun and fired.

And it looked like the cops were expecting that and couldn't tell what I was carrying. The wood stock made them think I had a shotgun. I'm just happy I had my head on straight and looked first.

My point is that it doesn't matter what you have. You point a marker at anyone in public, no matter what it looks like, and you're asking to get hurt.

I'm just not going to play outlaw unless it's on someone's property and out in the middle of no where. At least then you call the department and let them know and they don't walk in blazing on to private property.

Do I blame the cops for their reactions .... HELL NO ....

[trains are bad]

If you think that paintball is "safe" from anti-gun/anti-violence types you need to think again.

True! Give support to the milsims! I will fight tooth and nail to prevent anyone from telling someone how thier marker needs to look. That said, I think firearm looking markers are stupid as hell. But this is the same thing that's happening in the firearm world-the attitude of "it doesn't look like my deer rifle so why should I care if they ban it" etc.

Also, AS A COMMUNITY, they are much more careful with their markers, b/c they treat them like firearms whenever a gas or paint source is even ATTACHED

You know, this is something that has bothered me ever since I started paintball. I want to see people start treating thier markers like the LTL device it is and not a lasertag stick. TOURNEY players are the worst at this! And other non-milsim players. I have never felt as nervous around hardcore scenario players as I have in the pits at tournaments. Just because it's pretty don't make it safe...

The reason I dislike milsim markers is function. I basically think it's stupid to spend the effort on looks that don't improve the function at all. An autococker is beautiful because it was designed as an autococker-pure function-and not designed to look like something it's not. Dolling a up a marker to look like a firearm is stupid IMO.

Again I fully support milsim markers.

[The Deacon]

I don't play outlaw on public land anymore either, too many risks for too little reward. Like I said, it was a long time ago.

Still, I don't think realistic markers will make any difference. If they are used on organized fields by responsible people, they are fine. Everything has it's few bad apples. Crap will happen, and if it has a barrel, trigger and is a color anywhere close to black, it probably looks real enough to anyone at a glance, and with milsim markers, they still have quirks that betray their realism if you look at them for more than a few seconds.

[Sir_Brass]

The reason I dislike milsim markers is function. I basically think it's stupid to spend the effort on looks that don't improve the function at all. An autococker is beautiful because it was designed as an autococker-pure function-and not designed to look like something it's not. Dolling a up a marker to look like a firearm is stupid IMO.

Again I fully support milsim markers.

And that's a perfectly legit and reasonable reason to not use them. MOre power to you.

If y'all notice my sig, you'll see an animate gif of a blazer. That is MY marker. She's my primary by far. THose of you who know about the blazer know it's beauty is in it's simplicity. No frills, just totally awesome function. I love it like that.

One of the things that kept me from spending my money on a milsim marker over a blazer was that I wouldn't getting any more function out of the nearly equally priced milsim marker as I would out of the blazer for a similar price.

Now that I own a blazer, however, I'm more inclined to go get a milsim marker, however, only one that would have alot of functionality as well. Reason i'd get the WS-66 SR: that hop-up barrel of theirs (I'll reserve judgement till dierwolf and crew fully test it out, though), a flatline function in a straight barrel. It'd have functionality that my blazer wouldn't, and thus I'd be more inclined to own it. But if testing reveals taht that isn't necessarilly true, then I'll probably get a Typhoon next.

I'll take functionality over beauty any day, but that still doesn't keep me from drooling over some gorgeous milsim markers . heh heh heh

[Mckevern]

Shame On You Brass!!!

With a Typhoon you get FUNCTION AND BEAUTY!!!!

I have to send my PMI stock pile in to get a Typhoon and Squall made.

[Sir_Brass]

With a Typhoon you get FUNCTION AND BEAUTY!!!!

I have to send my PMI stock pile in to get a Typhoon and Squall made.

Imagine this then . Typhoon classic with all black powder coating and black highlights, dual stabs, strap, back bottle with gas-thru stock connected to bottomlined fem stab (for on-gun set-up and also allow a stock), sight ring, and 20 oz. light-weight anti-siphon CO2 tank with on/off valve, a dye 45 single trigger hinge frame (installed by Allan), and custom shartely wood grips.

mmmmm, I think that's going to be my next PPS gun. Either that, or a scratch-built hurricane .

Needless to say, my next PPS gun is a LONG ways off (b/c I can't afford to have it made )

[Z-man]

Gah I run out for a quick breakfast and I have to read another 10 posts!
Yes I am back! Round 2

So there has been all sorts of claims thrown about in the last few hours.

Sim-guns have never been implicated in vandalism,

the police will shoot you one way or the other...


So partly to verify what McKevevn said

Police will shoot a kid with a marker that looks real or not.

I decided to call up my local Sheriffs department. Our kindly Sheriff spent about 10 minutes on the phone with me answering my question. And here are some interesting things he told me.

1- The police WILL NOT SHOOT YOU if they can tell that the thing you are carrying is a paintball marker. They can arrest you obviously but the point is THEY WILL NOT SHOOT YOU IF THEY CAN TELL ITS A PAINTBALL MARKER.

2- Now if they cannot tell (say its under low light conditions or poor visibility) the officer has to make that judgment cal and is completely justified if he shot some kid running around with a paint marker or a BB gun or something

The sheriff said that the silhouette of the marker is really the big issue. Colorful anodizing is not as big a giveaway as what it looks like. Most often he gets reports of kids running around with airsoft guns and brandishing them at cars or whatnot and they can cause some serious problems.

I like what OOBuckshot said about this and I suspect that most cases the police make the right call. Still it does not make their job any easier to have to deal with the sim-guns regardless of how much an E-mag looks like a Tec9

Again, tis is NOT about what marker can do the most damage for your dollar this is about walking away alive vs a trip to the ER or the morgue.

If you make a marker that looks like a real gun that is all the more reason the poilceman will shoot you and that, IMO over rules any and all positive aspects of the sim gun as nice as they are. The consequences of NOT making them are much less than if you DO make them.

EDITED for pitifull spelling

[Mckevern]

So maybe I worded it wrong ...

I should have said it WILL get you shot ...

I should have said it CAN get you shot ...

It is up to the cop to make the call .... I just wish 00Buckshot could continue to use that judgement cause I know he's shot me in the butt on more than one occasion. Granted the one time was a cut throat game .....

Either way I had a REAL close call. The officer told all of us when we grouped up that they would have shot us given the choice. Maybe they were trying to scare us. It worked. We were already being safe back then but we're safer than that now.

Not to start another debat here but I thought Z-Man's point of arguement was that a Mil-Sim is more likely to get you shot .... I know from personal experience that it doesn't matter what you have. The situation will decide for you if you're stupid enough get yourself there.

[Drizit]

so z-man if it's the profile that will get you hit at night, did you consider stock class markers like the phantom?, i use a stock class phantom most of the time (don't need as much money for paint) and without the 6pack it would look a lot like a real gun of some sort posibly with a scope (that being the feed tube) at night, that would get me just as shot as a WG-65 or a C98 with no hopper, however a WG-65 or the AUG at the top with a hopper is much less likely to make a cop think i have a real gun and shoot me. now if you people want to make a differance to this sport perhaps you should concentrate less on what the marker looks like and more on educating people not to misuse them. take the Armotec forum i have a pair of zeus's so i curse by there every now and then, that forum is populated mostly by kids who don't know any better or by iresoponisble adults, there are some good people there but they seem to be out numbered. I think helping teach people to be responsible would be a much better use of our colective time.

[Konigballer]

i too had a similar "cop roundup" experience back in '97 I think. We were playing on a friends large woodland property but an old lady neighbor called the cops. So these two dorks come walking out there with hands on their guns and their screaming at the top of their lungs for us to get out of the woods. They were obviously nervous at first, we were all packing black guns, prolites mostly, but once they saw we all had face masks on they got even more pissed because they had to tramp through brush in their newly drycleaned pants.

I would have hated to see what might have happened if the first one of us that they encountered was packing one of those nice milsim markers, face mask or not. Cops run on survival instinct, their supposed to be able to calmly acess threats and what not but the ones I have encountered have always been very twitchy. I dont blame them, every day they go out and they have no real idea what will happen to them during the course of their shift. We've all probably read about police shooting guys reaching for their wallets and crap like that.

When you deal with people like that in any capacity, it would be alot safer to be packing a bright colored marker :o

p.s. the reason I refered to the cops as dorks in my story was because after they were done with their twenty minute attempt to intimidate us all, they tried to play nice and wondered if we had "ever heard of laser tag", they were apparently big fans of it and thought we would find that more fun........ dorks