What is AGD doing in the future?

[slade]

cyberious - i was talking about people who just buy power tools for personal use, not people who use them for their job. for the people who work in construction (i dont know too much about it, but this is what i would suspect), the company they work for probably owns the tools. if they do buy the tools themselves, this may apply. although i think that if agd just changes the name of mags, the negative name of mags would carry on, as long as it is a blow-forward with the same style valve and one tube. maybe if agd came out with a whole different marker with a different name the negative attitude would not carry on to the new marker, but in my opinion just a name change will do nothing.

[Cyberious]

cyberious - i was talking about people who just buy power tools for personal use, not people who use them for their job. for the people who work in construction (i dont know too much about it, but this is what i would suspect), the company they work for probably owns the tools. if they do buy the tools themselves, this may apply. although i think that if agd just changes the name of mags, the negative name of mags would carry on, as long as it is a blow-forward with the same style valve and one tube. maybe if agd came out with a whole different marker with a different name the negative attitude would not carry on to the new marker, but in my opinion just a name change will do nothing.

Perhaps. And perhaps I just have a negative opinion on mankind. I still think that many, certainly not all, would think it is a new marker with a simple name change and perhaps a change in the body style. I was coming from the stand point of the tourney player who does kind of use the marker for their job. I don't think we are too far off from our points of view. But where we are let's just agree to disagree :-)

[slade]

stip - look around on AO. there are electric markers, like the e-mag and x-mag, but AGD stopped their production because of Smart Parts. you can still buy those used or maybe from a dealer like tunaman or whitewolf (i think they still sell them) although youd probably have to pay in US dollars and pay a lot for shipping. AGD is currently working on a mechanical marker that will be able to keep up with electros (the hair trigger), so they dont need to produce electros any more. oh, and AGD does think about europe: http://www.airgun.com/Europe/index.html

try looking around our forum more. especially look at the hair trigger post.

[slade]

But where we are let's just agree to disagree :-)

deal. i dont think that further argument will get us anywhere.

[TraXeR]

stip - but AGD stopped their production because of Smart Parts..

Uh, that's not what I heard..

I heard it's because the technology is very old and they wanted to get rid of the 'mag' name. So they are revamping their product line. Hence aslo why the classic mag, minimag and flatline are no longer sold. Smart Parts had nothing to do with it.

[Thermus]

Developing the hair trigger is the best thing to do right now. When people see that no batteries are needed to shoot fast with mags, there opinions WILL change, and fast. Patent that fast. When is comes out, find a good tourny team to sponsor, and give them the new trigger. People will see what it can do.

[Xyxyll]

I think AGD's doing a pretty smart thing by changing concentrations. In the past few years, scenario ball has gone huge. I've been an avid scenario player for more than two years now, and it has grown a lot! My first scenario game had 60 people. My last scenario game had 256! Scenario players tend to be more honest, and you rarely see cheating in the game. Cheating is simply not acceptable at scenario players. You only sit out a max of 10-15 min, and you're back in! And to the rare wiper, I've seen players call their teammates out because of wiping.

At scenario games, you go out and have fun. There's room for all types of playing styles. Some people like to stay back and do base security, others like to use sneaky tactics to hide in the bushes, some like to role play, and some like to rush right up the middle with guns blaring. Some like playing pump, others like playing semi. In scenario ball, a pump player is just as much of a threat to the other team as a player with an high-speed semi. With the mass numbers at the games, you'll always be able to find someone with the same playing style as yourself. At the end of the game, one team wins, one team loses, but there are never any sour grapes. After a week you forget the score, and all you remember are the war stories.

Scenario games are becoming more and more popular. Last year the IAO added a scenario game to the week's agenda, and lately scenario ball has made it into nearly every paintball magazine. We're beginning to see more scenario markers and products aiming directly towards scenario players. The Tac-One, VF Tactical, A5, and more markers are now available. We've hit a new stage in paintball. Scenario ball may soon meet up there with speedball in popularity.

AGD is being very smart with this move. The scenario market is still fairly open, and there is no one company or product dominating it. Scenario players demand quality and reliability, and I think that is where AGD can step in. Scenario teams are cheaper and more beneficial to sponsor. Less paint is shot at scenario games (usually), and entrance fees aren't extreme. Sure, a sponsor isn't going to be able to have their logo in bright colors across the player's chest and back, but I find that sponsored scenario players plug their sponsors honestly and only when necessary to help someone out.

As a big-time scenario player myself, I am happy to see AGD join the ranks more exclusively, and I hope to see you on the field. Was unfortunate that the Battle of the Potomac had to be postponed, I was looking forward to meeting you. Maybe next time.

[shivors]

The only possible downside of moving into scenario paintball is there really isnt anything that is critical for "scenario" marker.

Like we all know what people want/need in their "tournament" level marker....speed, weight, profile, etc. etc. but there is nothing that I can see that is really needed for scenario play. The sight rails are cool but the need for a laser sights, scopes, or NV equipment just really doesnt exist in my opinion.

[Tunaman]

True but a few hundred bucks is a heck of alot different than a quarter of a million bucks. AGD Pride was sponsored, so were the AGD kids, so is Clare. They've done well too. Heck I remember even hearing one of them mention that Strange had to adjust their game because of the volumes of paint the AGD team was laying down. However, this hasn't made a great deal of difference because of the negative connotation that is associated with Mags from 5-7 years ago.

Have you ever heard of DeWalt power tools? Did you know that DeWalt was Black and Decker's answer to the negativity surrounding their name? They are produced by the same company! At the time no self respecting construction worker would be caught dead with a tool from the same company that produced the Dust Buster. Point is they changed the name and color and guess what? DeWalt is now one of the tool companies of choice amongst construction workers.

So the question becomes what's in a name? I suspect that if the hAir were named the hAir Mag it would suffer because of the name. If it were called something like the Deadlywind it would sell like crazy and Tom could sell at a premium price because it would be new innovative technology (well to everyone but all of us die hard supporters :-)).

De Walt tools suck. They are the crap of the crap. I wouldnt use one if someone gave it to me. I burn through 3-4 screwguns a year. I have used ALL of them. Cheaper is not better. Spend the money and get something that will last...like a MAG!

[Lohman446]

What most people have missed here (and these are as much guesses as actual knowledge).

TK could make living without ever making another paintball marker - they are deep enough into military and police training and weapon development that paintball I expect, is as much a hobby to TK as it is to some of us. That and Perfect Circle paintballs is likely profitable in itself.

TK has what a lot of paintball companies don't have, the luxury of being able to wait, to keep production at a minimum and wait for the dust to settle as others have said.

As for the tournament scene, why bother. Impies are still more popular than shockers, despite the fact Dynasty uses Shockers and used Angels to win with. Most people realize it is the skil, not the marker, that makes the team. And the tournament players account for little of PB overall market.

[gc82000]

I think it is great that AGD is going in a different direction. Is that not what the comapny is known for. Look at how the company started a single tubed marker. Never heard of when the sport started and very rare even for todays market. Lets just hope that this will not change with the new marker.
AGD is a great company we all can agree with that. Where else can customers get advice and technical help from a company's President or technicians. Nowhere that I have seen and this is a point that will keep costumers loyal as we all know.
As for the sport, it is still growing at an ever increasing rate. And the vast majority of players are in the Rec and Scenario areas. So concentration in this area is not a bad thing for any company. As for sponsoring tourney teams, yes, that will help but not in the direction that the company is trying to take.
Lets just hope that none of us see advertisors favorite words when trying to sell the new AGD guns. "New and improved"

[ronin]

lets all remember tom is a genious. its a good idea going for the rec players because thats where the money is only like 15-20% (not actual # but close )of the over all profit in the industry, the kinman analogy is not good the selling point for a spyder is that its cheap and so is the gun. (not a bad thing i have 2 ) i think tom is making a good decition turny play has and will keep changing very fast, it will eventually platue and tom will come out w/ something that changes the face of the game AGAIN! its happend befor and it will happen again......cant wait

[GoatBoy]

lets all remember tom is a genious. its a good idea going for the rec players because thats where the money is only like 15-20% (not actual # but close )of the over all profit in the industry, the kinman analogy is not good the selling point for a spyder is that its cheap and so is the gun. (not a bad thing i have 2 ) i think tom is making a good decition turny play has and will keep changing very fast, it will eventually platue and tom will come out w/ something that changes the face of the game AGAIN! its happend befor and it will happen again......cant wait

Scenario ball != rec ball.

[Jerhew]

By and large humans as a species do not like to find out their opinions are wrong. You can even prove it to them and the still won't like to admit it. It puts them into a state called cognitive dissonance. Meaning that even though they have been proven wrong, their mind still wants to believe that they were right.

hrm sounds like you've just defined pbnation...

sorry
but yeah i wish more people had such a deep understanding of this...
there'd be a lot less arguements, especially on internet paintball forums

obviously Tom knows exactly what he's doing...I imagine there's been many restless nights of sleep making the recent decisions that he's made...and I think if we give this a year or so we'll be able to look back and realize just how right he was...(atleast i hope so :) )
if the hair trigger comes out and is as good as it looks... I see great days ahead for AGD

[Mok_Star]

Tom...

My tourny team LOVES your marker, we use it all the time, as technology changed, of course some of our guys have switched to those, but the "MAG" has always been our primary and only back up...my primary for a long time was a RT with a Z-grip, which i still own and take with me to all tournies for a just incase marker, i use an e-mag as my primary, which by the way ROCKS, thanks to HAVOC-ONLINE....my team has, about 80%, agreed that if the deadlywind was to become a reality, we would use it, and the other 20% said they would if we were sponsored ( <--shameless plug :) )...

to those that say MAGS suck...opinions are like a$$holes..everyone has one and they all STINK....but there is a load of AGD loyaltist out there, alot still in the tourny scene....and if you don't remember, i was a ref at the Texas Throwdown, talked to you a bit...and the on the only tourny team sponsored by MXS, and an advid scenario player...so you know that scenario players want a marker that can deal with the heavy rain issue ( underwater hehehe ) and the long usage duration, so a battery-less, superfast mechanical would be a big seller in that market...but you already know that....

i have been an AGD fan since the early 90's, and always thought those that downed mags were just trying to justify a bad purchase...so i took a little offense the the idea that people think that the mag sucks....

i could go on for hours way the mag is better than other, we could break down the performance statistics of every marker on the market....the only thing i wish to say about all that is, every mag i have every own has worked...NONE have ever failed me...and i will use AGD markers till i can't play paintball anymore...keep them coming!!!!!

EXTREME AGD LOYALTIST FOR LIFE