Mag user... Not very happy (lvl 10 ruins)

[nato]

But I'm not very sad. You see, I have owned mags since I could afford one and love them. I found something though. The point in which mags got better and worse at the same time was when the lvl10 came around. It's a great upgrade but causes most problems in my mags along with my teammates. I have found that once you set a lvl10 you CANNOT forget it. Every 4,000 shots or so my lvl10 decides it wants a different carrier or something like that. I even tested by having AGD set my lvl10 and sure enough after a couple of thousand shots it dies on me and I had to completely change my lvl10 setup. I own an xmag and I want to be done buying/trading different markers. Ive gone through them all and the mag had what I needed. So this is my question... can the lvl10 be consistant enough where I can set it and forget it or do I have to figure out a way to go lvl7 again???


N.A.T.O.

p.s.- lvl7 isnt bad considering that I shoot e-mode, have ACE, and a victory board halo

[Load SM5]

Well, my level 10 has been running with the same carrier setup for around 6 months now without a hitch, and it's the only gun I use. So yea, it's possible. If you are'nt having an issue with level 7 then go back to it, but watch that last few balls.
Personally any carrier swapping is a small price to pay for no chopping. I think mag owners get a little spoiled. Other guns can have more maintenance, even more frequently. (Ever try and get the front reg assy. of a timmy to grease a cup seal after every 2 cases? sheesh)

[pointm@n]

I've been shooting my emag with the same carrier for a year now. I can safely say that at least 20,000 (10 months x 2000 balls) balls have been through it, probably more since in the summer months I played pretty much every weekend.

[cledford]

But I'm not very sad. You see, I have owned mags since I could afford one and love them. I found something though. The point in which mags got better and worse at the same time was when the lvl10 came around. It's a great upgrade but causes most problems in my mags along with my teammates. I have found that once you set a lvl10 you CANNOT forget it. Every 4,000 shots or so my lvl10 decides it wants a different carrier or something like that. I even tested by having AGD set my lvl10 and sure enough after a couple of thousand shots it dies on me and I had to completely change my lvl10 setup. I own an xmag and I want to be done buying/trading different markers. Ive gone through them all and the mag had what I needed. So this is my question... can the lvl10 be consistant enough where I can set it and forget it or do I have to figure out a way to go lvl7 again???


N.A.T.O.

p.s.- lvl7 isnt bad considering that I shoot e-mode, have ACE, and a victory board halo

Dude, no offense but what's the problem? It takes 5 minutes to change a level 10 carrier. You can even do it on the field with a little preperation. I carry a very small (key chain sized) crescent wrench and the carrier i need (if you're at 2.0 you KNOW that the next carrier you'll need is 1.5), and a 1/8 allen wrench. That can go in your pocket - and if you carry a backpack (for paint water, other tools, etc) then you can also drag along a small towel to work on and a bottle of oil. Step 1, turn air off. Step 2, remove air line. Step 3, remove field strip screw and take off valve. Step 4, use cresent wrench to remove power tube tip, Step 5, use field strip screw to remove old carrier, Step 6, use field strip screw to push out L10 oring from old carrier, Step 7, insert oring into new carrier and reinsert into power tube, Step 8 - reassemble.

I can now do it in about 3 minutes. FWIW, I've never had a carrier oring just stop working in the middle of a game. They always go after either: A) airing up for the first time on a day of play, after the marker has sat for more then 30 minutes, or after getting a new fill.

Hope it doesn't seem like I'm jumping on you - it's just you're making a mountain out of a molehill. The L10 is one of the most inovative products ever in paintball - I hate to see someone make a thread downing it because they don't want to make 5 minutes worth of effort to keep it in tune. Also, FWIW I remember the day when cockers dropped out of time at least once a day - so five minutes for a simple, stright forward procedure is pretty minimal to me. Also, a HALO won't stop chopping on a L7 mag - if you short stroke, you've short stroked.


-Calvin

[athomas]

Any gun that you tune to the very edge of performance will have issues if not maintained at that edge. There is no room for error.

The carrier shouldn't have to be changed once you find the correct one for your setup. The key to consistent operation of the level 10 bolt is to make sure the differential pressure between the spring force and the force on the bolt stem is larger than any frictional forces that may occur between the carrier o-ring and the bolt stem. If you want level 10 performance without the maintenance headache, use the shortest spring or use the middle spring and cut it back a bit. Make it stiffer than the short spring but lighter than the middle spring. Add a drop of oil down the powertube every once in a while. Reducing spring tension increases differential pressure and oil reduces friction.

I've been using the same carrier and o-ring for about 80,000 shots now. I did have to change the bolt spring though. I wore mine out. But thats normal wear and tear on a mag.

[shartley]

[the electrician]

some people luck out, and some people get the finnicky set-up. that's just how it is.

but I'm convinced that I can get any mag, and any lvl 10 to shoot great.

I'm gonna tell you what I had to do, because my lvl 10 would not stop leaking, unless I used a super tight carrier.

go to the hardware store, plumbing section, and get the same size o-ring used in the carrier. it will be a black, rubber o-ring. they are buna-n rubber and are much softer. they seal very easy and have alot less friction doing it. they are very cheap, so don't buy just one, buy several. more than likely they are a bit bigger and will use a one or two size larger carrier, but check it like the lvl 10 instructions say to do.

they CANNOT BE USED WITH CO2 !

but they are perfect for air. that cured my lvl 10 problems. follow the lvl instructions again of course, and you will get it running right.

I know they don't sell the lvl 10 with these soft rubber o-rings, because you can't use them with co2 and they don't last quite as long. but I've been using the same one for cases upon cases. I think they should toss one or two in there, and it would stop alot of this nonsense.

I use them in my on/off too. a lot less friction.

[gibby]

Could just be the break in period. I know I was going through that when I first set up my level 10. But once the o rings were broken in I hadn't needed to muck with the carriers any more. Just make sure they are oiled before you play and you'll be set.

[Kevmaster]

i too had a great level 10 setup...over 30,000 balls with no changes whatsoever. sold the mag and the level 10 with it. that was a 'proto' level ten. then i got an x-mag. the level 10 for that has to be changed every so often. don't know why specifically...but it is interesting.

i think it may be hit or miss

[cphilip]

It could be variations in batches of O-rings. Some wearing faster than others or that sort of thing. I would try another batch if mine were wearing in so much as to do that. And they will wear more if you don't oil them often. I would have a look at that particular bolt and Powertube too. Might be something going on there. But in my experience, after I get one to settle down and well broken it, it stays forever. At least so far mine have.

I often see people make mistakes assuming its their level 10 and really end up adjusting it when its a sticking reg pin assembly or something. You can overcome some of those sorts of things when you mess with it and think you solved the problem. When in fact you did not and just introduced another wandering variable into the mix and it gets confusing. You can even get odd things with paint to barrel matching or missaligned barrels that people attribute to Level 10 set up. Almost everyone first jumps to the conclusion when their marker misses a shot or refuses to shoot that its level 10. And half the time that is the wrong thing to start messing with first.

One time my kid thought his problem with not reaching crono velocity was level 10. Shooting way too low. And he turns up the velocity and before he can get near even to 280 he starts venting out the back. So he goes and messes with it until he finaly gets it to shoot close to 280. Thinks everything is fine. But he gets home and tells me about is and I think "what? That was well broken in and should not have done that". So I go take a look. He forgot to put the insert into the Scepter! He was trying to overcome a huge paint to barrel missmatch. By forcing more air in. But he did it! And so there ya go... In the end that level 10 setup was returned to exactly what it was before that.

[Butterfingers]

But I'm not very sad. You see, I have owned mags since I could afford one and love them. I found something though. The point in which mags got better and worse at the same time was when the lvl10 came around. It's a great upgrade but causes most problems in my mags along with my teammates. I have found that once you set a lvl10 you CANNOT forget it. Every 4,000 shots or so my lvl10 decides it wants a different carrier or something like that. I even tested by having AGD set my lvl10 and sure enough after a couple of thousand shots it dies on me and I had to completely change my lvl10 setup. I own an xmag and I want to be done buying/trading different markers. Ive gone through them all and the mag had what I needed. So this is my question... can the lvl10 be consistant enough where I can set it and forget it or do I have to figure out a way to go lvl7 again???


N.A.T.O.

p.s.- lvl7 isnt bad considering that I shoot e-mode, have ACE, and a victory board halo

I have had the same setup since I got it... I just polished the piss out of the bolt stem when i got it. I run a 1.5 carrier and no shims been that way forever no leaks no problems.

[Skoad]

Your in about the same situation I was when I had my emag. First 2 times I played it was perfect, then a leak started. Swapped out carrier, fixed it. Next time i played, leaked again. This time I could not get any of the carriers to keep it from leaking, tried swaping outter and inner orings, different shim configurations...just had to play through the leak for 2 more outtings. Next time out wasn't leaking until halfway through the day. Overall I got fed up with it. Closest place to get a tank fill was an hour and a half away, I can't play on a 68/3000 fill with the gun constantly leaking ALONG with the level 10 not being able to shoot properly under 800 psi.

Another problem was I could NOT get a good pinching configuration either. With every combination of parts I could possibly try, I could only get the gun to fire with the middle spring, which wasn't exactly soft on the paint. It would pinch most of the time but I absolutely HATE breaks of any kind, can't stand them.

It was neat when I had it, but looking back I kinda wished I never bought it and got something else in the pricerange instead.

[tony3]

My lvl 10 had a lot to be desired. It leaked quite a bit, but I love tinkering so it wasn't a problem. For most people though, they would of thrown the gun out the window. Personally, if I had an xmag, I'd probably switch to lvl 7.

[TheTramp]

After about a year I just had to go to a smaller carrier last weekend. Not too much work for the benifits of NO chopping.

EVERY other gun I've ever owned takes more work to keep it running.

[magman007]

Alot of you are still missing something very important about level 7. Not only is level 10 softer in its first stage, there fore making it chop proof, it also has less force in its second stage, the part where the ball is actually fired down the range.

Going back to level 7 will cause you to have breaks, whether the ball is missfed or not. the reason for this being is that, when the bolt goes to push the ball into the breach, it will hit it so much faster, and with so much more force than with the level 10. The level 10 slowly and lightly moves the ball into the breach, then when it hits stage too, it speeds u a bit, and sends the balld own the range with a blast of air.

level 7 just slams it in and fires it. Level 7 is too forcefull, and that slamming of the bolt into the poor waiting ball, can crack the ball, and well, there you go, barrel break.


Remember why the old super bolt sucked and caused even more chops? its because it got even faster in an old level 7 setup, and would crack the balls even more.

there ya go! stick with level 10, it isnt hard man!