Hammerhead Barrel: bs or legit?

[sneakyrob828]

Hey I just want a simple answer about the hammerhead barrel really being accurate or being a repeat of the old armson blender. I hear great things and then I hear that that person was just blowing smoke. is the barrel good or not? I read the AGD studies on rifling and its affects on accuracy. Writers in APG, the pb magazine I have a subscrition to, tested the barrel with draxxus blaze and nelson paint and found excellent results.

[personman]

I'm sure the Hammerhead barrel is very accurate and shoots great. Rifleing doesnt work though. Why pay the extra money for the hype when you can buy a cheaper barrel that shoots just as well?

[Lurker27]

Watch Lurker sacrifice himself to the AO Army

I'm about to commit some heresy here. At least, on this forum.

Rifling should work. It should. The 'raw egg' argument is BS. The tippmann flatline's flight pattern is consistent with a sphere that mains a fairly consistant spin throughout its entire flight. Gyroscopic stability will keep the axis of spin consistant, so there's not much to worry about there, either. In addition, it imparts the spin using the surface of the barrel, so we know that that CAN be done.

Now, to whether it's worth doing. Ruling out a 'musket' effect where the ball is not shot on a vector parallel to the zxis of the barrel, the only thing that shoudl determine the flgiht path of the ball from that point on is the magnus effect, a consequence of spin. Obviously you can't norm paint weight, wind, or size, so we'll ignore those factors.

In your traditionally 'accurate' barrel systems, where you match paint to bore, or throw a choke at the end of the barrel, as Glenn Palmer does, what you're really doing is regualrizing the spin of the ball, by attempting to take ALL of the spin out of the ball. this works much better than a loose match, which has some acceptable random spins incurred, which inevitably create a larger spread.

So then we're shooting imperfect, seamed spheres, with no spin. But we don't shoot in a vacuum. Now, the problem with this is that AFTER the ball leaves the barrel, you're going to get spin anyway, because of the vortices created by the seam. These in turn induce random spin that will push the ball off course. Because we do not know where the seam is when the ball is chambered, we can truly call that a random effect, which will effect accuracy both on the horizontal and azimuthal axies. Knuckleball effect promotes inaccuracy.

Guess we should give up on accuracy in paintball and whine about how we could be shooting footballs. Or, we could get rifling involved. When you rifle a barrel, you are regualrizing the spin (assuming a good paint fit) on the ball.

In turn this regularized spin should regularize the vortices around the ball. There would be no (random) push either way along the azimuthal axis. You can be assured that, with constant velocity, every single shot you take should land in the same place, and only external factors are affecting the ball. These would effect even our theoretically vaunted footballs the same way.

[[[Now, some of you may be thinking that Tom tested Rifling, but didn't he test it with his nylon perfect circle paintballs, which had no seam. Knuckleball effect only needs to be defeated once, and a perfct sphere does not exhibit it.]]]

[GoatBoy]

I'm about to commit some heresy here. At least, on this forum.

Rifling should work. It should. The 'raw egg' argument is BS. The tippmann flatline's flight pattern is consistent with a sphere that mains a fairly consistant spin throughout its entire flight. Gyroscopic stability will keep the axis of spin consistant, so there's not much to worry about there, either. In addition, it imparts the spin using the surface of the barrel, so we know that that CAN be done.

Now, to whether it's worth doing. Ruling out a 'musket' effect where the ball is not shot on a vector parallel to the zxis of the barrel, the only thing that shoudl determine the flgiht path of the ball from that point on is the magnus effect, a consequence of spin. Obviously you can't norm paint weight, wind, or size, so we'll ignore those factors.

In your traditionally 'accurate' barrel systems, where you match paint to bore, or throw a choke at the end of the barrel, as Glenn Palmer does, what you're really doing is regualrizing the spin of the ball, by attempting to take ALL of the spin out of the ball. this works much better than a loose match, which has some acceptable random spins incurred, which inevitably create a larger spread.

So then we're shooting imperfect, seamed spheres, with no spin. But we don't shoot in a vacuum. Now, the problem with this is that AFTER the ball leaves the barrel, you're going to get spin anyway, because of the vortices created by the seam. These in turn induce random spin that will push the ball off course. Because we do not know where the seam is when the ball is chambered, we can truly call that a random effect, which will effect accuracy both on the horizontal and azimuthal axies. Knuckleball effect promotes inaccuracy.

Guess we should give up on accuracy in paintball and whine about how we could be shooting footballs. Or, we could get rifling involved. When you rifle a barrel, you are regualrizing the spin (assuming a good paint fit) on the ball.

In turn this regularized spin should regularize the vortices around the ball. There would be no (random) push either way along the azimuthal axis. You can be assured that, with constant velocity, every single shot you take should land in the same place, and only external factors are affecting the ball. These would effect even our theoretically vaunted footballs the same way.

[[[Now, some of you may be thinking that Tom tested Rifling, but didn't he test it with his nylon perfect circle paintballs, which had no seam. Knuckleball effect only needs to be defeated once, and a perfct sphere does not exhibit it.]]]

So what happens when the rifling is stepped out so that it doesn't actually touch the paintball, as I believe I have read elsewhere. Or am I not remembering the thing correctly?

[Lurker27]

Air swirlign aroudn the ball, or sprila porting, is not enough to get a ball to spin. You need definate, consistant points of contact, and you need to ahve those points rotate in such a fashion that the ball stays with them.

I'm waiting to proto a system that have 3 inserted rifled guides in the barrel that link sup to an ACE and clamps when an ball is found to be in the breech. Once it does, samll electro magnets that repel 1/8" rare eath magents cause the guides to clamp down on the ball in the breech, and through the length fo the barrel. This same sysmte allows razorblades to paritally slit paintballs to create stress risers in the shell for better breakge. Bolt modification is need to allow the ball to be sized while in the breech. the guides must be straight there and begin rifling after the breech, where the bolt does not enter.

[GoatBoy]

Air swirlign aroudn the ball, or sprila porting, is not enough to get a ball to spin. You need definate, consistant points of contact, and you need to ahve those points rotate in such a fashion that the ball stays with them.

I'm waiting to proto a system that have 3 inserted rifled guides in the barrel that link sup to an ACE and clamps when an ball is found to be in the breech. Once it does, samll electro magnets that repel 1/8" rare eath magents cause the guides to clamp down on the ball in the breech, and through the length fo the barrel. This same sysmte allows razorblades to paritally slit paintballs to create stress risers in the shell for better breakge. Bolt modification is need to allow the ball to be sized while in the breech. the guides must be straight there and begin rifling after the breech, where the bolt does not enter.

So would you say the whole blurb about spinning paintballs, regardless if it's true or not, is non-applicable to the hammerhead?

[FallNAngel]

I'm waiting to proto a system that have 3 inserted rifled guides in the barrel that link sup to an ACE and clamps when an ball is found to be in the breech. Once it does, samll electro magnets that repel 1/8" rare eath magents cause the guides to clamp down on the ball in the breech, and through the length fo the barrel. This same sysmte allows razorblades to paritally slit paintballs to create stress risers in the shell for better breakge. Bolt modification is need to allow the ball to be sized while in the breech. the guides must be straight there and begin rifling after the breech, where the bolt does not enter.

Maybe it's just me, but the whole idea of a breech that clamps onto the paintball, and cuts the paintball with a razor just doesn't seem like a good one...

[Lurker27]

To me, i looks like the best done rifled barrel yet...however, I doubt it'd be good with a tiny paint like hellfire. my guess is that a paintball expands around a hundredth at the most,and you're going to get very poor results with a loose fit.

Look around for the grouping comparisons against a freak. it's no contest.

[Lurker27]

Clamps is a strong word...the idea is to create definite points of contact, while not inducing so much friction that you won't get the ball to move. at the same time, the guides must be rather tiny to minimize blowby.

As for the razor idea, I don't see a problem with it if you control the exact depth fo the vuts, something quite possibly if you have definite points of contact to use as a reference. It should be noted that a ball hitting on it's seam is 5 times more susceotible to breakage than one hitting at the 'pole'.

[GoatBoy]

To me, i looks like the best done rifled barrel yet...however, I doubt it'd be good with a tiny paint like hellfire. my guess is that a paintball expands around a hundredth at the most,and you're going to get very poor results with a loose fit.

Look around for the grouping comparisons against a freak. it's no contest.

You must be referring to this:

http://www.hammerheadpaintball.com/downloads/The_HammerHead_Barrel.doc

I hope with all the money you're supposedly spending on your research, you'll be more careful, thorough, and detailed than the document you just referenced.

In fact, feel free to come back with your results, lest all of this get thrown into a large pile marked "unsubstantiated".

[Lurker27]

My research is physics. My cost is $5.00 for a stock barrel thusfar.

All I'm saying is that theoretically, it works. Nevermind the Hype.

[Magglerock]

My research is physics.

Then go back to school, because this is nothing but hype. Tom or Butters, if you're out there, please put this one in the grave. Rifling has NO effect on a paintball. Period. The effect produced by a flatline is totally different phenomena. Hammerheads are CLASSIC hype: all claim, no proof. Anyone who buys that barrel is a fool. But then, you know what they say about fools and money...

[shivors]

So has anyone here actually used one of these barrels?

Stopped by to look at these at D-Day. The video seemed impressive..for a video. Then he said that I could take one to shoot if I left my drivers license. I didnt have time but I thought that if it was a PoS that they would want my money first. (I never got a chance to shoot it though)

[Lurker27]

I've never used a Hammerhead, nor would I vouch for it's efficacy, because they haev't proven to em that they're putting a consistent spin on the ball. However, should someone prove to me that they are indeed putting a consistent spin on the ball, I'd not be so quick to dismiss their claims of accuracy, for the reasons above.

[The Spanish Inquisition]

I'm waiting to proto a system that have 3 inserted rifled guides in the barrel that link sup to an ACE and clamps when an ball is found to be in the breech. Once it does, samll electro magnets that repel 1/8" rare eath magents cause the guides to clamp down on the ball in the breech, and through the length fo the barrel.

Isn't this what AGD did with the spinning barrel proto and solid plastic paintballs? < LINK HERE > Or is your idea different.

From what I've read the vortex effect on light ammo is the main reason why rifleing is so ineffective.