Hammerhead Barrel: bs or legit?

[GoatBoy]

I've never used a Hammerhead, nor would I vouch for it's efficacy,

I'm sorry, it just sounded like you were when you say something like this:

Look around for the grouping comparisons against a freak. it's no contest.

Plus you know, you didn't give a direct answer to whether or not all of theory applies to the hammerhead in the first place.

If the guy who reviewed the hammerhead didn't match the paint up with the freak as well as with the hammerhead, would you still conclude that the different in paint patterns was due to rifling? In fact, can you really conclude anything at all from that document with the grouping comparisons against the freak? If you really are a researcher, you should know better.

because they haev't proven to em that they're putting a consistent spin on the ball. However, should someone prove to me that they are indeed putting a consistent spin on the ball, I'd not be so quick to dismiss their claims of accuracy, for the reasons above.

And nobody's proven it. $100 a barrel, and nobody's proven it. All this research and not a single shred of proof. All we have is some white marks on a barrel from some guy.


Save the theory about spinning paintballs until after it's been proven. Until then, the whole thing is not applicable.

[Lurker27]

My guess is that in some percentage of the cases the Hammerhead works. The PBR scores are a 1, a 2, a 5, a 7, and 21 10s. Not that that means horribly much.

I'm not saying that the Hammerhead barrel in particular is the greatest thing since sliced bread, but I think that the technology is worth looking into.

[desslock]

I was always under the impression that a rifled paintball barrel is as usefull as a one legged man in an *** kicking contest. But if people spend the extra money on a rifled barell that is no more accurate than a stock barell and they THINK there shots are more accurate, whats the harm in a little Dumbo's feathers. The mind is a powerfull thing and if somebaody has conveinced themselves they are more accurate w/their hammerhead let them bask in their ignorance/glory. After all, everybody knows the more money you spend on a paintball gun the better player you will become! cough*cough*sarcasm*cough.

[Lohman446]

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If the guy who reviewed the hammerhead didn't match the paint up with the freak as well as with the hammerhead, would you still conclude that the different in paint patterns was due to rifling? In fact, can you really conclude anything at all from that document with the grouping comparisons against the freak? If you really are a researcher, you should know better.


And nobody's proven it. $100 a barrel, and nobody's proven it. All this research and not a single shred of proof. All we have is some white marks on a barrel from some guy.

My guess is those groupings from the freak to the hammerhead have a logical explanation. I do not expect the results are "faked" though I could be wrong. My explanation for tighter groupings would be a heavier barrel less prone to the recoil of the marker and that the user was shooting offhand. I don't know this, but I expect it is more likely the culprit than rifling.

[Butterfingers]

In short its bulldink. Paintballs are never and probably will never be consistenly round enough to give predictable spin patterns. This is why rifling will not work with a paintball.

Some of the information high speed photography and definitive proof is burried in the deep blue forum.

Also if AGD would chime in Im sure he would give much input on the theory of spin stabalization of paintballs.

To make the whole entire setup as consistent as possible he set up a spinning barrel system in which a barrel was spinning at a preset rpm while the paintball was sitting in there picking up speed. Then he would shoot it.

He found that spinning adversely effected the grouping sizes of the paintball even with consistent spinning. He also varied the rpm of the motor to simulate diffrent rifling rates.

[Lurker27]

Perhaps this has to do with the dated nature of the AGD testing. I recall a thread in which Tom cite paint to barrel match creating 2 points of contact, which glenn palmer rebutted, noting that recently testing from his camp showed that paintballs would leave amore uniform pattern of contact along the inside of a barrel. Maybe paintballs are now sufficiently round to allow us to look at rifling as a reasonable alternative to smoothbore.

[Butterfingers]

Even so it is the only type of scientific testing and documentation we have. Glen although is well respected didnt have much to offer when asked for some documentation. Painball's havent really changed over the years. The technology and machines used to produce them for the most part are the same.

The theory is sound but almost an impossibility given the fact that spin stabalization especially for a spherical object relies heavily on the consistency of the projectile. Sure you could make a perfectly round paintball. But I dont think anybody would be willing to pay $2000 for a case of paint especially given that a smoothbore barrel is more than sufficent given the effective range of a paintball.

The theory of spin stabilization works so well in a bullet because of its enormus mass and its actual ability to be consistent. In a paintball that simply isnt the case. Lead tends to hold its shape and size much better than a liquid filled gelatain ball does.

Rifling at this point does more harm than good. You can get the ball to spin but it wont be benificial. An off axis spin would send a paintball careeming in the wrong direction. This is very likely given the poor consistency of gelatain which is effected by weather, handling, manufacturing, ect...

[Lohman446]

Perhaps this has to do with the dated nature of the AGD testing. I recall a thread in which Tom cite paint to barrel match creating 2 points of contact, which glenn palmer rebutted, noting that recently testing from his camp showed that paintballs would leave amore uniform pattern of contact along the inside of a barrel. Maybe paintballs are now sufficiently round to allow us to look at rifling as a reasonable alternative to smoothbore.

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They spun the entire marker at 30K RPMs (if I recall) - which is likely more than you are going to gain from a barrel. What has changed to change the idea that spinning a paintball has little effect on it?

[Butterfingers]

If you are going to rifle a barrel straight rifle a barrel. Nobody has done it yet and i think it would help drasticly in REDUCING spin of malformed paintballs thus making paintball flight itself more consistent.

[rx2]

J+J used to sell straight rifled barrels back around the mid 90s.

[Count Crimson]

Just the facts

I understand all of the skeptisism i'm seeing on this board, I still have my doubts but after actually shooting a Hammerhead barrel on a 2k2 timmy at a local inflatable field my fears have somewhat been calmed.

It seems that about 20% or more of people who have purchased a HH barrel and posted about it online or at least claim to have purchased a HH think that it's pure garbage, among the worst barrels in the history of paintball! The Other 80% seem to think that it is the barrel of the gods sent from mount olympus!

My Hypothesis on this strange trend is that the barrel will either work great on your gun or like crap, if it works like crap i've been assured by Robert Judson through e-mail correspondance that Hammerhead will give you a full refund!

Back to the facts, when I shot about 150 rounds of Hellfire paint though a 2k2 timmy with a Hammerhead it shot GREAT! Comparing it to my friends impulse with a freak kit (both the timmy and impulse were using compressed air) the timmy w/ HH shot about 40 feet further and it was pretty much ball on ball from about 150 feet on this pole about 10 inches thick! My gestimate is that there was about a 3-5 inch ball deviation.

With all of that said I will not be 100% convinced that the hammerhead will work with my gun at least until I purchase one, I will likely place my order tomorrow, I'll make sure to let you know with as much info as I can provide how the barrel works!

One last note, I was told by a local paintball shop owner (BIG SHOT PAINTBALL, Tulsa, OK) that a new version of the Hammerhead barrel was released a few weaks back that fixed some ball chopping problems when firing at high rates of fire. . .

[sneakyrob828]

bump

[hitech]

...the only thing that should determine the flight path of the ball from that point on is the magnus effect, a consequence of spin.

That is not true. Vortex shedding is the major thing that determines the flight path of most paintballs. The Magnus effect does not begin to significantly effect the flight until it exceeds approx. 6k rpms.

In turn this regularized spin should regularize the vortices around the ball. There would be no (random) push either way along the azimuthal axis.

Now, some of you may be thinking that Tom tested Rifling, but didn't he test it with his nylon perfect circle paintballs, which had no seam. Knuckleball effect only needs to be defeated once, and a perfect sphere does not exhibit it.

First, Perfect Circle paintballs are NOT nylon. Second, he DID test with nylon balls that are the same size and weight as paintballs. The test results were approx. the same as with paintballs.

If paintballs without seams fired with rifling were dead on accurate (i.e. not affected by vortex shedding) Tom would be selling millions of Perfect Circle paintballs to us paintball players.

[Miscue]

First of all, ask yourself why firearms use rifling, particularly with ball ammo, and if paintball markers have the problems of firearms that are addressed by rifling. What problem does rifling fix for paintball?

Second, the rifled tip of the Hammerhead has a larger ID than the control bore - like all 2-piece barrels. To my knowledge, this is the first time anyone brought it up: http://www.automags.org/forums/showt...ght=hammerhead

Luckily for Hammerhead, there's a sucker born every minute.

The belief that Hammerhead barrels are special is from marketing hype, and testimonials from morons who believe that this magic pill does indeed make their pecker look bigger. "It grew, really! It's just like Dr. Ron Jeremy said, and he should know! You guys don't know what you're talking about!"

If it really was better than all other barrels, why don't all the pro-teams use it? Obviously a superior barrel would increase winning chances. If it did what the marketing hype suggests, everybody would use it.

But then again, why do we spend $100+ on metal tubes to begin with? I buy barrels because I like how they look - which I suppose isn't much of a better reason as the "psychological advantage" that Hammerheads offer.

[justjoshin590]

armotech is also coming out with a strait rifled barrel for the wg75+ and ws66(which already has a hop-up) id like to see some real testes of these barrels, since from what they say on the forum the hop-up has amazing effects (250'+ kill zone) also hop-ups are used on airsoft guns, which fire even lighter ammunition than paintballs, so look into this