Possible Victory For WDP over SP.....

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  • MicroMiniMe
    Easy Like Sunday Morning
    • May 2003
    • 1213

    #16
    Whats more devastating to SP, that they didn't include Hensel as a patent author or that he didn't sign the SP buyout?
    Under what legality was WPD able to aquire Hensel and his work/art? Because he wasn't a patent author and had the records to prove otherwise?

    CNC Emag
    Featherlight Viking

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    • OysterBoy
      Fatty McChubbercookie
      • Feb 2004
      • 1409

      #17


      Hooray

      Unicorns are people too ...
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      Caterpillars are people too ...
      Baby Peacocks are people too ...
      lew "My hand was a little shaky and I released too soon."

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      • MarkM
        UK Cougars
        • Jul 2002
        • 2433

        #18
        Originally posted by MicroMiniMe
        Under what legality was WPD able to aquire Hensel and his work/art? Because he wasn't a patent author and had the records to prove otherwise?
        Because Hensel wasn't aware that the Patent claim had been filed...and further that he wasn't named on it...had Smart parts named him then perhaps the outcome of this would have been different...they didn't so it wasn't and nor did he sign the Pnu ventures share holding deal...but did get named when the debts came to be settled. How would you feel if you got saddled with the debts but didn't get the pay off for what you had invented/worked on. When WDP got in contact he must have thought christmas had come early.
        Kill the people but never let the bodies be found
        At least when Bill Gates aquires a company and then effectively stops it's output (to allow no competitor to his products) the people in the company come away rather richer than they started off. He even bought shares in Apple so it was kept afloat so at least there is one competitor so he can attempt to look like a nice guy
        Mark UK Cougars


        UK Cougars
        Sterling Owners Group. Member #39

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        • Bulldog
          Registered User
          • Jun 2001
          • 1374

          #19
          What the hell does "laches and estoppel" mean?

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          • billmi
            Tech Editor - WARPIG.com
            • May 2001
            • 810

            #20
            Wow - read the judges opinion....

            WDP won on the grounds that they bought the rights to the Shocker, not because the Angel was first, or that there was other prir art.

            Hensel was made VP of Pneu Ventures, and given stock in the company, with the agreement that the rights of what he invented with to the company. He didn't sign that agreement though, even though he got the stock and operated as the company VP. While VP of Pneu Ventures he designed the electronic circuit in the PV Shocker. Pneu Ventures and SP jointly filed the patent (as I understand their arrangement at the time that was their agreement.) Pneu Ventures went belly up, and according to a PV employee, that meant the patent rights went to SP.

            When PV was dissolved and the bank came after him for unpaid debts, Hensel saw he wasn't named on the patent, and turned around and sold his claim to the rights to WDP for $50K.

            Now we have a judge deciding in favor of WDP on the grounds that the Shocker was the first electropneumatic, but that WDP really has the rights to the patent because a contract was left unsigned.

            In essence WDP bought SP's own patent out from under them.
            Last edited by billmi; 08-26-2004, 10:44 AM. Reason: To add another comment

            Computer / Paintball geek
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            • Hexis
              Green Mag Freak
              • Sep 2001
              • 2427

              #21
              Found a little description here: Patent Litigation Options

              The elements of laches are (1) unreasonable, unexcused delay in the assertion of a claim (typically the filing of suit) and (2) prejudice to the Defendant resulting from the delay. The delay period commences when the patentee knows or should have known about the acts of the infringer. Plaintiff has the burden to show the reasonableness of delay periods of more than 6 years, while Defendant bears the burden to show unreasonableness for delay periods of less than 6 years.

              The elements of estoppel include elements (1) and (2) above and further include (3) affirmative conduct by a patentee which induces the infringer into believing that the patentee had abandoned its claims, and (4) detrimental reliance by the Defendant.

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              • Bolter
                Hardcore casual
                • May 2003
                • 1223

                #22
                To see the Judge's opinion, go to


                To see the Judge's order, go to
                Bolter
                Storm Uk

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                • mykroft
                  Registered User
                  • Jan 2001
                  • 2010

                  #23
                  Interesting, and probably good news, as WDP is not nearly as litigation-happy as SP is.
                  2k2 VF Cocker, STO/Eclipse Blade, Old-Style 14" Boomstick,
                  68AutoMag Classic Feed CF11023, Ring trigger.

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                  • paullus99
                    Knight Stalker
                    • Apr 2004
                    • 293

                    #24
                    Wow - this certainly will change more than a few things around the industry. SmartParts got its butt handed to them....this judge is definitely not a happy camper....

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                    • shartley
                      paintball player
                      • Mar 2001
                      • 9169

                      #25
                      Originally posted by MicroMiniMe
                      Whats more devastating to SP, that they didn't include Hensel as a patent author or that he didn't sign the SP buyout?
                      Under what legality was WPD able to aquire Hensel and his work/art? Because he wasn't a patent author and had the records to prove otherwise?
                      Originally posted by MarkM
                      Because Hensel wasn't aware that the Patent claim had been filed...and further that he wasn't named on it...had Smart parts named him then perhaps the outcome of this would have been different...they didn't so it wasn't and nor did he sign the Pnu ventures share holding deal...but did get named when the debts came to be settled. How would you feel if you got saddled with the debts but didn't get the pay off for what you had invented/worked on. When WDP got in contact he must have thought christmas had come early.
                      Kill the people but never let the bodies be found
                      At least when Bill Gates aquires a company and then effectively stops it's output (to allow no competitor to his products) the people in the company come away rather richer than they started off. He even bought shares in Apple so it was kept afloat so at least there is one competitor so he can attempt to look like a nice guy
                      Originally posted by billmi
                      Wow - read the judges opinion....

                      WDP won on the grounds that they bought the rights to the Shocker, not because the Angel was first, or that there was other prir art.

                      Hensel was made VP of Pneu Ventures, and given stock in the company, with the agreement that the rights of what he invented with to the company. He didn't sign that agreement though, even though he got the stock and operated as the company VP. While VP of Pneu Ventures he designed the electronic circuit in the PV Shocker. Pneu Ventures and SP jointly filed the patent (as I understand their arrangement at the time that was their agreement.) Pneu Ventures went belly up, and according to a PV employee, that meant the patent rights went to SP.

                      When PV was dissolved and the bank came after him for unpaid debts, Hensel saw he wasn't named on the patent, and turned around and sold his claim to the rights to WDP for $50K.

                      Now we have a judge deciding in favor of WDP on the grounds that the Shocker was the first electropneumatic, but that WDP really has the rights to the patent because a contract was left unsigned.

                      In essence WDP bought SP's own patent out from under them.
                      Originally posted by paullus99
                      Wow - this certainly will change more than a few things around the industry. SmartParts got its butt handed to them....this judge is definitely not a happy camper....

                      www.ShartleyCustoms.com
                      Custom Paintball Products and Accessories
                      CLICK HERE to Check out our PDU SERIES GEAR!


                      its more like a paper cut that has primadonna's yelling murder... - Glickman

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                      • hitech
                        Not a shedder of vortices
                        • Nov 2001
                        • 4775

                        #26
                        If you do not sign an agreement otherwise, determining who owns something an employee develops is not a simple matter. Just because you are an employee and develop/invent something, it doesn't automatically belong to the company you work for. Even if you developed/invented it while on company time. I develop software, and every company I work for has had me sign an agreement that states that all software developed by while "on company time" is property of the company. This is because companies lost lawsuits over ownership of software to employees.

                        I don't know the specific laws, but it appears that the judge ruled that the company did NOT own the patent rights to the invention, regardless of the inventor's employment status, or maybe because of it.

                        Regardless, I'm happy to see SP loose.


                        Hey Hitech your starting to sound like me! - AGD
                        Hitech is the man.... :eek: - Blennidae
                        The only Hitech Lubricant

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                        • thecavemankevin
                          the living un-banned
                          • Feb 2001
                          • 4346

                          #27
                          who-ray!!!!!!


                          Quote: MarkM
                          "virus attacks have been dealt with, same with back door nasties. ."

                          My feed back

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                          • Miltonyz
                            Registered User
                            • Nov 2002
                            • 224

                            #28
                            I believe it's because he wan't technically an employee. The judge refrences on early ruling about how something a company president develops does not automatically mean the company owns it.

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                            • fire1811
                              Firefighter
                              • Nov 2002
                              • 4930

                              #29
                              Originally posted by The Gardners
                              Losing Patents = We have a patent for that too.


                              "The Few Who Do Are The Envy Of The Many Who Only Stand And Watch"

                              Alway Remember *343*

                              Si vis pacem, para bellum

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                              • shartley
                                paintball player
                                • Mar 2001
                                • 9169

                                #30
                                Originally posted by hitech
                                If you do not sign an agreement otherwise, determining who owns something an employee develops is not a simple matter. Just because you are an employee and develop/invent something, it doesn't automatically belong to the company you work for. Even if you developed/invented it while on company time. I develop software, and every company I work for has had me sign an agreement that states that all software developed by while "on company time" is property of the company. This is because companies lost lawsuits over ownership of software to employees.

                                I don't know the specific laws, but it appears that the judge ruled that the company did NOT own the patent rights to the invention, regardless of the inventor's employment status, or maybe because of it.

                                Regardless, I'm happy to see SP loose.

                                www.ShartleyCustoms.com
                                Custom Paintball Products and Accessories
                                CLICK HERE to Check out our PDU SERIES GEAR!


                                its more like a paper cut that has primadonna's yelling murder... - Glickman

                                Comment

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