Possible Victory For WDP over SP.....

[hitech]

Finally, something worth discussing.

I noticed something that no one else has mentioned. In all the discussions of what the patent was for centered on an electronic circuit that controlled ELECTROPNEUMATIC solenoids, and the timing of these solenoid VALVES. The judge stated in his opinion:

WDP's evidence shows that Dr. Hensel's work related to how the electrical circuit could be used to control the solenoid valves and timing of the paintball gun, which is claimed.

The reason I find that significant is that it is a more limited interpretation of what is claimed in the patent than I have heard before. For example, the eMag does NOT use the electronics to control solenoid valves nor does the electronics control the timing of the paintball gun. The valve itself controls the timing. This is evidenced by the fact that it will continue to operate without the electronics. The electronics are ONLY used to INITIATE the firing cycle. They have no control after that.

Based on the written opinion of this judge, I do not believe that the eMag is covered under the '326 patent.

Other opinions?

[fire1811]

hmm interesting Hitech

[thecavemankevin]

if i am not mistaken, wasn't there two or more pattents involved that SP was useing when sueing everyone. One had to deal with the electronically controlled solenoid, and the other i think had to deal with being battery opperated and the battery being located in the grip frame. Now this is all from memory back when all this junk really started, but it seems as though this pattent was just dealing with the solenoid and not the battery in the grip frame. Furthermore, Angels don't use batteries in the grip frame, nor do e/xmags. However, the majority of the electro guns out there do use this battery placement. so if SP still holds this pattent, then they can still continue to sue over the battery placement issue.


In the end, i doubt WDP will become bedfellows with SP. I would not be surprised if they demand half of the currently being payed royalties though. I truely hope that WDP wont contue any of this suing for royalties crap, but would it be at all surprising to anyone if they did?

[KRAKMT]

The judge was not interpreting the patent, he was determining the ownership. That language is dicta. It does not go to his reasoning or holding. Whatever the claims of the patent will have to be directly challenged by a company accused of infringing. WDP had a great manuver but unless WDP is somehow able to exert influencce over the patent it doesn't effect the breadth of the patent.

Finally, something worth discussing.

I noticed something that no one else has mentioned. In all the discussions of what the patent was for centered on an electronic circuit that controlled ELECTROPNEUMATIC solenoids, and the timing of these solenoid VALVES. The judge stated in his opinion:



The reason I find that significant is that it is a more limited interpretation of what is claimed in the patent than I have heard before. For example, the eMag does NOT use the electronics to control solenoid valves nor does the electronics control the timing of the paintball gun. The valve itself controls the timing. This is evidenced by the fact that it will continue to operate without the electronics. The electronics are ONLY used to INITIATE the firing cycle. They have no control after that.

Based on the written opinion of this judge, I do not believe that the eMag is covered under the '326 patent.

Other opinions?

[hitech]

I realize that the judge was not ruling on what the patent covers. However, in order to determine ownership he needed to determine what the patent covered. It would be hard to determine who invented something if you don't know what they invented. Especially if more than one person is claiming to have contributed. See what I'm getting at. It is insight into what a judge might rule if asked to rule on what is covered in the patent.

You don't happen to be a patent attorney, do you (that would be too much to ask for )?

Regardless, you probably know more than most here about patent law. Have you read patent '326? In your expert opinion, what does it cover?

Also, it appeared to me that if WDP sued SP claiming that Dr. Hensel was the sole inventor of that patented in '326 they would stand a better chance of winning that loosing. What do you think?

[WARPED1]

How come no one has ever mentioned the Nelson based pump gun system and the number of times it has been directly copied(SI Bushmaster, Bloodsucker for example). I think Nelson tried a patent, but gave up due to the cost involved...........

[KRAKMT]

More than likely it would be a different judge deciding the validity of the patent. chiefly because it will be a different plaintiff and lawsuit. WDP won't sue to invalidate there own patent. They stand to make money just like SP. I am not a patent attorney but am an attorney with some background. And I read every paintball patent as they are issued. I will have to reread 326 and the 700 patent since it has been awhile and they usually just get me pissed off. As for the last part WDP did try to claim that Dr. Hensel was the sole inventor. The judge probable would have found that way but for the pneu ventures guys involvement.

I realize that the judge was not ruling on what the patent covers. However, in order to determine ownership he needed to determine what the patent covered. It would be hard to determine who invented something if you don't know what they invented. Especially if more than one person is claiming to have contributed. See what I'm getting at. It is insight into what a judge might rule if asked to rule on what is covered in the patent.

You don't happen to be a patent attorney, do you (that would be too much to ask for )?

Regardless, you probably know more than most here about patent law. Have you read patent '326? In your expert opinion, what does it cover?

Also, it appeared to me that if WDP sued SP claiming that Dr. Hensel was the sole inventor of that patented in '326 they would stand a better chance of winning that loosing. What do you think?

[KRAKMT]

I don't remember the nelson patent but if it did exist I suspect it has expired by now. Meaning you could make the exact marker descibed in the patent. I suspect it was not protected or not enforced.

How come no one has ever mentioned the Nelson based pump gun system and the number of times it has been directly copied(SI Bushmaster, Bloodsucker for example). I think Nelson tried a patent, but gave up due to the cost involved...........

[hitech]

More than likely it would be a different judge deciding the validity of the patent. Chiefly because it will be a different plaintiff and lawsuit. WDP won't sue to invalidate there own patent...As for the last part WDP did try to claim that Dr. Hensel was the sole inventor. The judge probable would have found that way but for the Pneu-ventures guys involvement.

Probably, but it does give us "lay people" insight into a patent judge's thinking. Also, it is my opinion that judges make the least possible ruling. In this case, the cases could all be dismissed by determining if Dr. Hensel was an inventor that should have been named on the patent. The judge did not need to determine if he was the sole inventor, since the cases were dismissed based on his being an inventor.

Now, if WDP sued SP for patent infringement claiming that Dr. Hensel is the sole inventor the judge (or jury) would have to rule on that claim. I think they have a better than 50% chance of winning.

I am not a patent attorney but am an attorney with some background. And I read every paintball patent as they are issued. I will have to reread 326 and the 700 patent since it has been awhile and they usually just get me pissed off.

I really look forward to your post after reading those!

Like I thought, you know more about this stuff that most here...

[1stdeadeye]

YAY!!!

Now AGD can get us a new Electro!

[Bolter]

How come no one has ever mentioned the Nelson based pump gun system and the number of times it has been directly copied(SI Bushmaster, Bloodsucker for example). I think Nelson tried a patent, but gave up due to the cost involved...........

i think you just answered your own question.

[billmi]

i think you just answered your own question.

Patent # 3788298 - Nelson Splotchmarker.

[shartley]

[m-98]

Correct me if I am wrong with any of this, and also bear in mind that I am confused by much of this. What I understand it that WDP and SP have co-ownership of the patent in question meaning that both could collect royalties etc. While these two companies could work together and make a lot of money, I do not believe that they will. Why? Because of human nature. Humans always want what is best for themselves and are generally greedy. Both companies will figure out that they could make more money without the other company involved and each may try to do away with the other company. I am just speculating and I hope what I posted makes sense.

[Temo Vryce]

For now it doesn't matter to me if this comes out in our favour or not, today I have new found respect for WDP. I'm not a big fan of the Angel but I respect the company behind it, for now.