Paintball and "Mil Sim"

[Tyger]

I thought about making this a poll, but I would rather see discussion on this instead.

Over on another forum, a group of Mil-Sim players have been getting a hard time about wrecking the image of paintball. The Mil-Simmers, to their credit, didn't turn it into a flame war but did say something that made sense to me.

...you seem to think that we are half-crazed, psycho weekend warrior types. We go out to have fun just like the rest of you. We just prefer to play in large wooded areas rather than in smaller areas with spools, pipes, or blow up barriers.

Which brings me to the quesiton I have. I realise that there's already some gear out aimed right at the "Military Simulation" market (The Tac-1, for example), but you don't read about their style of play in the magazines and such. It seems to be a very underground movement, even with Airsoft in large stores like Galyans next to the paintball gear.

So should paintball as a society embrace the mil-sim style of play as a part of the larger "Paintball" culture?

-Tyger

[Mastema]

Not AGAIN!

[Brophog]

Does it have a choice?

Despite paintball's best effort in the opposite direction, people do, and may always, associate the sport with milsim or at the very least, people shooting each other in the woods.

Case in point: Last weekend we invited some guys from work out to our private field. True newbies.....they knew nothing of the sport.

And guess what we heard all day long?

Bullets. Magazines. Clips. Kills.

You get the idea.

Chrome the world to death. Play in pink bunkers with bunnies on them. But in the end, it seems that people can never get over the fact that it is a game involving two or more people shooting each other.

[Tyger]

Not AGAIN!

Was there a thread on this I missed? I'm being serious. As far as I can see, it shuld be addressed. When one of my local field owners mentions in casual conversation "We're going to try to organise an airsoft day" it tells me there's something more to this.

But if there's a recent thread on it, I'll go to it instead.

-Tyger

[Enos Shenk]

As a rabid libertarian and woods player, my neck hair rises whenever some holier-than-thou speed player starts ranting about how milsim and woods "kills" paintballs image. If someone wants to bolt a magazine on their gun, i say let them. As i see it, the milsimmers harbor the last of the dying breed of paintball players that actually build things themselves, the kind of people i respect over anyone else.

Am i the only one who has never seen the sense in that? Who cares what some overweight soccer mom thinks of a game we play? I sure dont. Am i the only one who doubts anyone is going to pass a law outlawing a multi-million dollar industry? Even if they do, who cares? Theres always outlaw.

I say play the game you want to play it. I wont dis on you if you dont dis on me. The only reason i tend to badmouth tourney people is i cant stomach their lack of morals or honor (call it what you will, fair play works too), and the fact that theyre always bashing on MY play in the woods.

[Mastema]

My "Not AGAIN" was for the topic.

Not another discussion about "how the mean and bad woodballers project a negative image compared to the saintly multicolored balloon playing speedballers"

It's been done and done and overdone again and again and.........

We all know how it's gonna go!

[quik]

Alot of 'paintballers' who seem to talk down about Mil-Simmers, are usually just kids who havent ever played in the woods without 'nature' obstacles. Most of the 'mil-simmers' that I've met have been twice as kind to me than any of the speedball playing kids.

I for one enjoy a day out with my friends(and sometimes with guys I dont know) in the woods alot more than the field sometimes. It really is a relaxed mood, and some of the games are indeed fun and really are challenging. Its a great change of pace from the usual 'chess-game-with-guns' routine at the local field, thats for sure .

I for one think it is a great alternative to the people who dont enjoy playing speedball, and enjoy going out with their friends and having a good time.

Only complaint though I have about it is that sometimes they dont practice safety as much as some other people, but Im sure it can be remedied.

[sig11]

Not AGAIN!

I think he is saying "not another woods vs. speedball thread. When I started typing up a reply it came out as just that.

Lee

[teufelhunden]

I've got nothing against mil-sim paintball, but I don't understand why anybody at all plays it.

Airsoft is cheaper, the guns go auto, and you can actually have sniper, support, etc. in airsoft due to a much higher velocity limit and such. Plus the guns actually look milsim.

So yeah. Just makes sense to play airsoft if you're goin mil-sim.

[Tyger]

My "Not AGAIN" was for the topic.

Not another discussion about "how the mean and bad woodballers project a negative image compared to the saintly multicolored balloon playing speedballers"

It's been done and done and overdone again and again and.........

We all know how it's gonna go!

It can be kept civil, actually. That's why I asked on AO, and not somewhere else. AO has a diverse community of players, so it's a better litmus test than some other boards. I kinda wonder who else has "done" the mil-sim, would be willing to chat it up here.

And actually, I think everyone can bennefit from the viewpoints from everyone else. And besides, I think we've had a LOT of discussions about tournament players, I don't see a problem talking about the woods players for a change.

-Tyger

[Mastema]

The only thing I don't understand is that it's always "rec vs. speed"

Maybe I didn't get the right message from your first post .

If you really want to know why people play recball instead of airsoft you should have said so.

[Bulldog]

So should paintball as a society embrace the mil-sim style of play as a part of the larger "Paintball" culture?

Define "Paintball culture". Do you mean the fraction of players who post on boards like this? I thought woodsballers were the larger part of paintball?

Edit: And Woodsball = Mil Sim, right?

[Brophog]

I've got nothing against mil-sim paintball, but I don't understand why anybody at all plays it.

Airsoft is cheaper, the guns go auto, and you can actually have sniper, support, etc. in airsoft due to a much higher velocity limit and such. Plus the guns actually look milsim.

So yeah. Just makes sense to play airsoft if you're goin mil-sim.

Yes and no. The real advantage is the projectile size is so small that you can match realworld likenesses to actual firearms better than in paintball. As to velocity, while .2 gram BB's are typically allowed up close to 400 FPS, larger BB's and some alternate power sources vary greatly by field, almost always in the case of a much lower FPS rather than a larger one. In the end, the BB's tend to go a shorter distance than a paintball due to their tiny weight.

But most of the other regulations, including eye wear, are similiar to that of paintball. They tend to also use paintball RPG's and paintball grenades in their re-enactments.

Maybe the question should be, given the newfound popularity of armotech and similiar mi-sim markers, why would anyone go to airsoft?

[Tyger]

If you really want to know why people play recball instead of airsoft you should have said so.

Well, it's not just Airsoft, but that's a part of the whole. I mean there's companies like Special Ops Paintball that make tippmans specifically for a more "realistic firearm feel". And LAPCO has a lot of aftermarket parts for the same reason. There's also the GunFX (which is more for training, granted), and there's this guy, who's been around a while. He makes realistic "shells" for other paintguns

There seems to be a lot of players who want to make a paintball Mil-Sim that isn't "airsoft", which is why I brought it up. They want a paintball military simulation that goes further that scenario games do.

Oh, woodsball doesn't equate to Mil-Sim. Mil-Sim is more of a "Simulation" of war with military theme and structure to it, or wargames. Rec-ball is just paintball in the woods.

-Tyger

[Severe]

I don't think it's just "some gear" per se. Consider the Tippmann A5 is specifically made to reasemble the HK MP5. And there are sites like www.OpsGear.com and www.A5Ownersgroup.com where modding their markers to make them more MilSim are all the rage. These sites do not generally consider the Tac-One MilSim because it does not resemble a military weapon, it's merely geared towards scenario play style. I wish it did have some kits to dress it up some.

At the field where I play Tippmann markers easily comprise 50% and higher of the markers being used. Now, admittedly, I play at a, by some standards, a small all-woods field in central NC. Also consider how large scale scenario games are becoming more popular and players are going to great lengths to attend them.

I understand that Rec-Ball and MilSim are not the same. However, these two styles of play tend to cross-lines much more often than say Speedball and Rec-ball. It's not a matter of whether or not the paintball community should recognize these players, they don't have too, this is simply another population of that community....I would guess a large and growing population.

Frankly I don't think it's an underground culture at all, it's just that the current lot of paintball magazines choose not to heavily cover it.