Paintball and "Mil Sim"

[brianlojeck]

1: Years ago paintball was milsim. We all got so scared that a left-wing PTA group would take away our right to wear camo and shoot black "guns", that we all stopped wearing camo and shooting black "guns". Does that even make a lick of sense?

2: Milsim paintball is FUN. I'd rather play Milsim style, with somewhat realistic ammo loads and engagement ranges then tournament ball. most fun of all is milsim tactics and ammo loads on a speedball field, but maybe that's just me. I watched a lot of SWAT when i was a kid...

3: what do you think scenario paintball is if not Milsim?

[RusskiX]

Though I suspect this topic WILL quickly degenerate into the old woods v. speedball debate, I enjoy the discussions that are a result.

What is kinda funny is the fact that I am a die-hard woodsballer because I enjoy the challenges of differing terrain, but I'm NOT a big fan of milsim. While most milsimmers are truely nice folks and enjoy the sport without an agenda, I do not approve of the realistic image they portray. Unfortunately, I do think milsim fosters ignorant paranoia in outside viewers that is attributed to paintball as a whole. And while I appreciate the creative expressions of milsim markers, real guns make me apprehensive and I prefer not to be around them.

I think that airsoft is a much better venue for milsim players due to the nature of the equipment and format. I also think that airsoft is in that infancy stage that paintball occupied 15-20 years ago. It is not as widely known outside of the community, it is not pushing a televised format and hence doesn't have as many hangups about image.

Certainly there is room for everyone in paintball, but I'm surprised more milsim players don't go with airsoft for the freedom and unspoiled nature it provides.

[Cougar]

Mil-Sim guys need one of these

[Brophog]

but I'm surprised more milsim players don't go with airsoft for the freedom and unspoiled nature it provides

See post above regarding airsoft.

real guns make me apprehensive and I prefer not to be around them.

That's kind of ironic. I know of several gun owners, especially those owning assault weapons and other rifles whom feel the same way. Their opinion, as trained gun owners, is that they can't stand the idea of pointing something that looks like a real firearm at someone else.

[Jeffy-CanCon]

I say we let people play paintball however they want to, so long as they play safely.

But I do worry about the image that Mil-Sim play has, and that it will scare the Soccer-Moms. Soccer Moms complain to politicians, and they VOTE. Mil Sim has become and should remain the redheaded stepchild of mainstream paintball, certainly not something we should promote or publicize.

Mil Sim is not woodsball, and it's not scenario, either. At least not always. To me, Mil Sim is the attitude the gear and the whole approach to paintball as a wargame/tactical simulation rather than as just a game, played for fun.

One of my friends gave up paintball for Mil Sim Airsoft. They all wear matching camo uniforms (which change with the season), with $300 SpecOps webgear, and call each other Sarge and Captain. Their games are ambush and attack/defend scenarios. I don't know anyone who plays paintball like that. None of the Big games and Scenarios I've been to have been played that way. And I'm glad.

[Duck Hunt]

Look, the bottom line is this:

It doesn't matter if you're on a speedball field, or in the woods, or playing a war game, or playing russian roulette with a PGP. Each one of these different types of players do THE SAME THING. They GO OUT, HAVE FUN, and play PAINTBALL.

The REAL problem is the amount of UNEDUCATED people making perceptions about how "violent" these games are.


I'm going to be completely honest. I run into more friendly fun loving people playing woods or scenario then I do on the team practice field... most of those guys are abunch of asses. I almost had to light some guy up because we got into a fight about him playing on, he must have thought he was too good to call himself out.

Sean

[Enos Shenk]

certainly not something we should promote or publicize.

Ive never seen anyone "promote" milsim, ive never even seen milsim players try to promote themselves besides showing up at a scenario with a tippmann wrapped in AK47 parts.

[Lohman446]

Chrome the world to death. Play in pink bunkers with bunnies on them. But in the end, it seems that people can never get over the fact that it is a game involving two or more people shooting each other.

Agreed.. and with good reason. No matter what you do, the base premise of the game, is aiming your projectile firing device at someone, launchign a projectile at them and hoping it hits them to eliminate them. I dont care, its a sport that has violent attachments, and for good reasons. Thats what its based on.

Im sick of people telling me "speedball" (which I play more than woodsball) isn't violent and isn't like that. YOur shooting at people, thats the bottom line. Dont like it, go play basketball or something.

[Richter]

[brianlojeck]

Their games are ambush and attack/defend scenarios. I don't know anyone who plays paintball like that. None of the Big games and Scenarios I've been to have been played that way. And I'm glad.

Umm, Jeff... haven't I read about you attending the EMR Castle Big Game? (I could be wrong...)

Is having a "general" and an "XO" defend or attack a "castle" really any different then having a "sarge" and a "captain" defend an "ammo dump"?

[AclowN]

one of my favorite things about this game is... the variety of preferences people have, like a bright shiny gun to play tourney ball with? woohoo... like a mil sim based marker for the "realism"? awesome... Like stock class because you have less shots and rely more on skill or that "perfect opportunity" for you shot? Great...

the people that shun Mil Sim type players are one thing.... mostly children... and mostly from the city, where there are not many areas to play IN the woods... why shun woodsball? why shun a different way to enjoy rec balling opposed to you same old bunker ball day in day out, why not enjoy a little realism if thats your thing, why not enjoy the safety of a bunker rather than the frailty of a couple of bushes? why should you be angry over how someone else plays a sport? man... we need to BANISH street basketball then... because it is corrupting the way the proffessional side of the sport is played. oh and lets ban highschool and college football because it has some differences in rules compared to professional play.

someone likes to play paintball in a war like environment... SO WHAT... does this effect someone that prefers to play on a speedball field? no....
will this change the fact that we shoot round Projectiles.... similar to old blackpowder rifle rounds.... only filled with paint and traveling slower...
to ANYONE uneducated to this game, do you think this does NOT sound dangerous? especially if they have seen an ugly bruise from being bunkered or lit up....
does running around in pretty jerseys and pants change the fact of what is being fired? so does it change the outlook from the ignorant point of view?

fact is, no... none of this changes things, how the game is played doesnt change anything, the fact that we are playing a game where we SHOOT at each other.... this alone strikes fear into the "Soccer Mom's".... its not the mil sim goons bent on play simulating warfare.... or the sprinting across field to bunker someone at 2 feet way and bonus ball them a fiew times... it is the fact that this game, to the dumb person, is EASILY associated with real fire arms.

and another thing that is not helping us one bit is the lack of positive publicity.... there is a little.... but not enough... all we see is the negative... like the Co2 tank related deaths, and the paintball marker drive-by's...

all in the end, why do we shun each other... mil simmers, or tourney ballers... we all enjoy the same game, just in different circumstances and play styles......

so lets all just get along please? and let the bouncy ball make you smile..

[Got_Paint]

3: what do you think scenario paintball is if not Milsim?

Scenario is a paintball game with a storyline where you write the story...ever been to a black cats game or MXS?

Last weekend I played a game based on United Earth Federation. We played in the woods, COPS911 came out, but does that make it mil-sim no!

The storyline was based around wackyness, I ended up on the final battle of the first day running a prop back to our base...you know what that prop was, a skeleton of William Shatner .

My friends team the BMF Renegades a scenario team based out of San Fran wears hawaiin shirts!

THere is a very different side ot scenario besides mil-sim.


Mil-sim is another apsect of the sport, not my bag, but hey if you enjoy it go for it!

[brianlojeck]

Scenario is a paintball game with a storyline where you write the story...ever been to a black cats game or MXS?

I haven't. I'm really just playing devils advocate here. I always found this argument wrought with logical holes...

Last weekend I played a game based on United Earth Federation. We played in the woods, COPS911 came out, but does that make it mil-sim no!

so a scenario gamer defends his UEF general, A mil-sim gamer "saves Private Ryan". is the only difference the brand of beer drunk afterwards?

The storyline was based around wackyness, I ended up on the final battle of the first day running a prop back to our base...you know what that prop was, a skeleton of William Shatner .

wackyness aside, is the only difference cosmetic? if I dressed a bunch of milsim guys up in space suits, there would be no problem?

[paullus99]

I'd buy an Armotech gun in a second if I thought it would be as reliable as my Mag or even a Tac-One. Sorry, but I grew up playing war in my neighborhood & really enjoyed it. I was the armory for all the local kids, I had the plastic Uzis, shotguns, etc. A friend of mine even had a bazooka (you pumped it & it make a great firing sound when you pulled the trigger).

I got into paintball because it was a logical extension of what I did when I was much younger. Now I play scenario's & if you check out our website, you'll notice the military-nature of our look. We're not psychos, we don't like to hurt people (as opposed to some speedball players that seem to think 10 - 20 shots are necessary to get someone out), and I have yet to meet a scenario player who was not extremely nice and non-judgmental.

Now, I haven't played AirSoft - although that option is open, but I'm perfectly happy with the situation I'm in right now. When the team goes to practice, its interesting to see the reaction from the speedball players - derision, until we bowl them over on the field. What we do it just a different branch of the same sport & it seems to really appeal to the older crowd (late 20's & 30's - some older tournament players that get burnt out, ect).

Paintball has changed a lot since I started back in 1988. I'm just happy that I've found a good group of guys (and girls) that like to head out to scenarios & other events and have a good time. At the end of the day, that's what's important to me.

[Eagle]

well, considering that 'mil-sim' is where paintball got started...