High-speed Mechanical Triggers vs. Electro.

[RTDynaflow]

when the Hair trigger comes out, any electro trigger will look like work to pull. Ohh yea even precious Angels....

Hmm... the hAir is what? 2 onces? Can come down to like 60grams? What is an angel trigger? Vikings have 25g.. I have seen softer micros, but 25 is even pushing it. On the other hand, the hair has a .01" stroke and appears to not bounce at all. Something that is hard to get on electros.

[Enos Shenk]

Well, pneumatic proximity detectors exist, and pneumatic logic circuits exist.

The tricky part is miniaturizing it.

[tyrion2323]

Throw a CAM feed on a cocker, and there ya go. Works perfectly (if you're not too retarded to set it up, that is.)

[warbeak2099]

I didn't say my idea was practical. Just an idea. But Enos has the right idea. If you could miniaturize a pneumatic proximity detector that would work. Hey hush, we don't want someone going and patenting that!

[Lurker27]

I can only think of two reasons.

To say you did it with no battery

Going swimming

Otherwise, WHY?

[PBX Ronin 23]

I didn't say my idea was practical. Just an idea. But Enos has the right idea. If you could miniaturize a pneumatic proximity detector that would work. Hey hush, we don't want someone going and patenting that!

PBX is aware of the concept but it is prohibitive in more ways than one. What several of you have suggested is to actually implement an electronic ball detection mechanism in a mechanical gun which in and of itself defeats the purpose.

The G-Force pneumatic system is definitely intriguing. My only reservation is the size of it and unless there is a creation of a "Mech Only" division in the highest level of paintball competition, mechs will have a more difficult time competing.

More and more I become more appreciative of the LX for what it can accomplish and more and more I'm seeing that the Mag has more strength as a mech than any other mech out there.

[RRfireblade]

The tricky part is miniaturizing it.

In actuallity ,size is really not a major concern.

Just for instance.....

The average person looks at this type of frame and thinks,"yeah,all you have to do is stick a cocker 3way in there and a ram and your done". On the surface,that may seem like a simple solution but that's not going to get you anywhere near the performance you need to get in order to compete with an electronic trigger pull. Most people really have no idea how light and short an electronic trigger pull really is till you try and duplicate it without a micro switch.

In regards to pnuematics as they apply here,the two biggest issues by far is the mear speed and force at which pnuematically driven parts can move and having the ability to control said parts in terms of, and in incriments of, single milliseconds......or less.That added to the fact that paintball markers as a whole have blown wide open, the typical demands and speed requirements of off the shelf components in almost every commercially available part/product catagory. Before recent developments in paintball, asking for a pnuematic soleniod,electronic or otherwise, that can cycle over 30 CPS continously would get you laughed right off the phone. Not to much has changed there yet either.Same thing was true back in the days before HPA. If you wanted an item that can sustain 3000PSI or better, you pretty much had to build it or mod it or......something. We developed a 3/16" coiled remote line here that had a WP of 12000+psi and tested to 20000psi+ and could not get a failure of the line (the fittings were a different story)due to a lack the testing equiptments ability at that time.Even to this day,there are those that refuse to believe those 'wild' and outlandish claims. Those outside 'paintball' still don't.

Anyway....didn't mean to turn this into a 'lesson'.

I was just trying to illistrate that there are many concerns beyond what it may seem on the surface. As for the "eye" system, the 'system' doesn't need to be very complicated at all.Speed and reaction time is really the issue when yor talking about cycle times in the 20-30 second range and the ability to have full control over those in the most minute degrees.....without a software revision being the easy fix. :) That's why a stand alone electronic system sounds appealing but all mech would be more fun.

The biggest hurdle,IMO, is building a system that can react at twice the speed of the rest of the system and have full control of that system down to teh most minuite fractions of a second........oh and do it 20-30 times in a second if need be. Sounds easy huh? Well, it can be done...........I'm pretty sure..........kinda

Jay.

[GT]

how long have we been talking about the hair trigger? How many people own one let alone have actually shot one?

[wdyer14]

There is a great argument both ways,but as usual there is always a trade off.I own a RT-pro,Angel Speed,and an IR3 among a few others and most of the time I play with my mag out of preferance,unless I'm at a rather important tournament where I just feel I need a higher rate of fire (rare though,I'm usually in front)The speed's new sensi technology is crap,Bob himself quoted to me that WDP had even him fooled and there is no way to garuntee that it won't keep cracking the crystals,my cops 2 is alot more reliable,but even still in the heat of a game you ram a straight shot down it and there goes your precious eye.Granted I've played without the eyes without to much trouble,but thats not the argument.My RT w/level 10 was hard to fine tune,yet I've never again thought about itin over a year.My speed board has been replaced,and I've upgraded my cops,but my level 10 keeps chuggin along-lol.So I feel that electro's are reliable,but nothing beats the rock solid ability of an RT valve that has manged to remain the same,while other company's are having to constantly fix programming issues.After saying all that I'm not dogging electro's just saying there are alot of preferance statements on here of this is better or that is better,it's just all about what you like,,,no right or wrong answers.....P.S. before I get flamed about the sensi statement I know alot of them are ok still,but Bob installs eye's w/ the predator boards for a reason.

[G3PB]

A Normally Closed Pneumatic Proximity Sensor. The ones currently made are a little large but they can be "remote" mounted. If there is a call for a smaller version, someone will make them.....that would solve your mechanical eye problems....

[PBX Ronin 23]

The biggest hurdle,IMO, is building a system that can react at twice the speed of the rest of the system and have full control of that system down to teh most minuite fractions of a second........oh and do it 20-30 times in a second if need be. Sounds easy huh? Well, it can be done...........I'm pretty sure..........kinda

A lot of it has to do with the type and quality of the e-components being used, the algorithm and the astuteness of the programmer....if you're purely referring to a ball detection system.

But if you're talking about the valve and its cps and controlability, then holy grail has been found....mQ-Valve.

[hitech]

But if you're talking about the valve and its cps and controlability, then holy grail has been found....mQ-Valve.

But can it maintain the velocity to +- 0.5 fps?

[PBX Ronin 23]

But can it maintain the velocity to +- 0.5 fps?

Sorry but the best I've achieved is +/1 fps using Diable Inferno.......

Being that we failed your standards miserably, we'll strive to do better the next time.

I knew I should have chosen the 'wooden' valve.....

[RRfireblade]

But if you're talking about the........

I'm talking about doing it all mechanically. An electronic system I could build in my sleep. On a few late nights, I think I have.