Girl dies from less than lethal weapon.

[LudavicoSoldier]

I was down in Kenmore Square post game, and I def. saw BPD with FN303s. I didn't see the girl get shot though...

edit - BPD bought a bunch of the FN303s for the DNC, and they have just been itching to use all the new toys they bought; e.g. the surveilance system they installed around Fenway and the "bulldog" assault vehicle. I dont know if the girl got hit by a 303, beanbag, or riot launcher w/rubber bullets, its really does suck that the officer didnt take better aim when he was supressing the crowd.

[B.A.M.]

hey i was in boston to post game it was awsome. i saw a car get tourched cuz it a NY licence's. GO SOX

[Muzikman]

first place a 37 mm less lethal device was used. it fires a 2inx2in lead filed bean bag. a FN303 fires only paintball projectiles .68 cal with a bismuth front payload and a stabilizing fin. the less lethal weapon used was similar to this http://www.37mm.com/launchers/defensetech.asp
this weapon can kill someone the FN303's chance of killing someone is the same odds as you being struck by lighting on a sunny day.Stopping reading to far into things. all weapons of this type are called less lethal. Pepper spray, tazers, cs, and cn are consider less than leathal

Yes the FN303 is much less likely to kill or seriously injure someone than say a beanbag round. But trust me, it could kill you pretty easy if hit in the head. The rounds are heavy, and they come at you fast. It did not take long to put a hole in a 1/4" plywood back-stop of my trap in my basement with an FN303 and some nylon balls. Don't think that because they are "more like" a paintball gun, that they are not dangerous.

[VFX_Fenix]

Less Lethal Weapons are been in use for many years and there've always been deaths associated with them. Kenetic LLW's are designed to deliver a solid, but generally non-fatal, hit to a target. These weapons are intended to strike the target's center mass and can inflict serious damage to other areas of the body. Bean Bags are something of a classic example of these weapons and have been used for around 30 years. More modern weapons include something that resembles a flying ring that's fired from a special barrel attachment that can fly something on the order of 100yds.

Consider for a momment that even a paintball can be a lethal projectile. If a paintball can be a lethal round then why not a bean bag or a pepper ball? Pepperball specifically says not to fire at the head/face of the target. The Home Office of the UK has done a study on these technologies for those who doubt even FN's own page.

Bottom line, there's no such thing as a 100% non-lethal weapon that will still gain compliance from an individual. People will have alergic reactions to chemical agents (OC and CS), people can suffer fibrilation from stun guns, and anything that fires a projectile specifically designed to strike a target to gain compliance will be lethal if the round strikes in critical areas simply because of the energy needed to "get the point" across. There will always be accidental or intentional mis-use of these devices as well.

So, while this girl being killed by a less lethal device, while unfortunate, is not the fault of the device, the company that made the device or any of it's components, nor is it likely the fault of the officer or the victim. It is the result of the risk inherent to using these devices, but using these devices is certainly less lethal than if the officers had been shooting live ammo into the crowd... don't you think?

[Pickle]

its really does suck that the officer didnt take better aim when he was supressing the crowd.

VFX_Fenix - Next time you are down in So Cal playing look me up.

[50 cal]

Any non lethal can be deadly if mis-used. The Palestinians have learned that at the hands of the Israelis. Anyone struck in the head can be seriously injured or killed by the "less lethal" or "non lethal" weapons.

[banzaimf]

from http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/10/22/fan.death/index.html

"..was hit in the eye by a projectile that disperses pepper spray on impact..."

i.e. Non beanbag

[evo.end3R]

thos beanbag bullets arent paintbal style at all... they just smack the bejesus out of you. in either jackass or one of the CKY movies they shootone of the guys with a beanbag bullet. left a very nasty bruise.

[LudavicoSoldier]

Well, the Boston Globe is reporting today that the projectile was fired by an air powered less-than-lethal launcher. Here is the exact text:

"Victoria Snelgrove, a 21-year-old journalism student from East Bridgewater, was struck by a pepper-spray-filled plastic ball at about 1:30 a.m., some 90 minutes after the Red Sox celebrated on the infield at Yankee Stadium, provoking an estimated 80,000 jubilant and mostly young fans to converge on Kenmore Square."

"Police said they intended the pepper-spray balls, propelled by a compressed air system similar to those used in paintball guns, to be "less than lethal."

[Mosfet]

The problem is that it struck her in the eye.

I put blame on the Rioters for being so freaking stupid to riot after winning!
But I also think there should be a little investigation on the situation that led to the incident.

Why did the officer aim high, instead of going for a body shot?
Was he jostled?
Did She duck?
Was he aiming at the idiots climbing the street poles?

If he was truely aiming at her head or anyone elses head, then blame is to be either put on him (assuming he had proper training), or on the force for any lack of proper training about the use of less than lethal weapons.

If he was aiming at center of mass, then it was 100% an accident.

Sure, you can argue about adrenalin, and being vastly out numbered. But Police and Military have to show control in them selves to prevent certain things from happening such as friendly fire, and the killing of innocents. The girl may have been rioting, making her not a bystander, but that doesn't justify use of deadly force, which is what shooting at the head is.

But my end opinion is: I'm sad for the girl, her family, and friends, mad at people who think rioting is good for celebrating or protesting a sports event, and worried about what the media and public may do to our sport.

As said above, remember even paintballs are deadly, if proper safety precautions are not used.

[LudavicoSoldier]

The Globe reported that a bottle was thrown, and landed in close proximity to a horse mounted officer. The officer who had the less-than-lethal gun had his back to the crowd which he thought threw the bottle. He whipped around (according to witnesses) with gun at shoulder level and quickly fired ~6 rounds into the crowd. I seriously doubt he took deliberate aim at the girl who was hit in the eye, rather, he was trying to suppress the people who he thought threw a bottle at his fellow officer.

[rkjunior303]

Mosfet is correct.

BPD held a press conference last night and took full responsibility for the woman's death. She was struck in the eye with a pepperball that was fired from a less-than-lethal weapon. The incident was confirmed by two different news papers, including a Boston Globe reporter in stating that she was an innocent bystander. While she was within the crowd (hell, even I was- you couldn't not be in it if you went out anywhere around Fenway), she was standing on the side with friends doing no malicious acts.

If anyone is familiar with the Fenway area, Landsdowne Street is the street where this incident happened. This street runs along the Green Monster side of the park. This street is probably the main 'nightlife' hub of the city, with the entire street lined with bars and clubs. Directly across from the Green Monster, there is normally a 'Sausage Guy' vendor that sells sausages -- this is where she was standing..

It's sad to see an incident happen like this, especially towards someone that seems like they were just in the wrong place at the wrong time. While I belive it won't stop people from being like this again (the local media here is REAL CONCERNED if this series gets to 6 or 7 games), hopefully it will stop people and make them think twice about their actions. I believe BPD should take a zero tolerance policy for the upcoming games, which is what the NYPD did during the RNC after one of their police officers was beaten into a coma. Arrest everyone that doesn't comply with the police and let the courts straighten it out.

Sad. Just plain sad.

[Mosfet]

damn. I know that area. I sometimes visit the Avalon.
even seen the sausage guy!

I think giving the marker to the mounted officer might have been a bad idea.
Given the raised elevation of the marker, this greatly increases the chance of a deadly shot.
In fact, there is no way that he can shoot down on a crowd without the balls passing through the plane (geometry) of the critical deadly zone.

It should have been in the hands of a ground trooper who can fire at shoulder level and have almost no chance of hitting someone in the face unless he was either aiming upwards, or the person is really short.

I'm not saying you shouldn't have a mounted officer. The height gives a command view of the crowd. But the PD needs to realize the implications firing from up there can bring.

Todays Green Metro states: "Boston Police take blame for Emerson student's death"

[Muzikman]

I will say it again. If you are in a riot you are NOT an innocent bystandard. If you are in a riot and do not want to be treated like a rioter, GET THE HELL OUT! It's not that hard, trust me. It happened 90 mins after the game, it's not like they did not have time to get out of there. Again, sad it happened, but would not call her an innocent bystander. And if you were down there, you too were not an innocnet bystander.

[rkjunior303]

I will say it again. If you are in a riot you are NOT an innocent bystandard. If you are in a riot and do not want to be treated like a rioter, GET THE HELL OUT! It's not that hard, trust me. It happened 90 mins after the game, it's not like they did not have time to get out of there. Again, sad it happened, but would not call her an innocent bystander. And if you were down there, you too were not an innocnet bystander.

I agree. The idea of just being down there gave everyone a chance to be stomped on my BPD... Which is why I left right after people started to really mill about. When they started scaling a Public Works dump truck, that's when I knew it was time to bail out of the situation. As much as I love the sox, I have no need to burn, loot, pillage, or whatever else these students feel empowered to do.

That's the one thing I don't understand... What makes people think "Sox won! Lets go flip over a car". Pure stupidity if you ask me -- and I'm no angel. I'm in my 20s just like everyone else probably down there.