Why are there legal troubles between D.W. and PTP? (reasoning inside)

[thorn]

ramble: on
ok. read title. someone must have either copied someone or come up with EXACTLY the same idea. dw is here in my hometown houston only a few miles away from me. ptp is in a place that is remote like..iowa...or something...i dont know..(no offense to iowa people, ur all cool) anyway how is dw going to go all the way over there, break into ptp, steal the plans, and come back? what about vice versa? if you were to take the grips off of the frames and look inside, i bet they work differently, no? so if they MOST LIKELY work in different ways, then why are there legal issues? i may sound like a hippocrite or kid that doesnt know what hes talking about, and of course theres gonna be some people coming in saying u r a hipporcrite or u r just a kid, however, the two companies (mainly ptp since there the ones getting mad and all) "oh u have a trigger that uses gas! well you cant do that! only we can do that! you read my mind and took my idea!" i mean it almost sounds like they are the little kids.

however, my opinion could be completely crushed if they actually released something on the status of the legal issues, progress on the work, etc.

ramble: off

[FreakBaller12]

because times change
It's all about making money nowadays.

Think of it like this. If your coming out with a product and another company is releasing the same thing, you are naturally greedy and want to make money. So to keep the other company from making money you put a patent on it, and you get full rights to that product. With the competition gone, all the customers come to you.

[BobTheCow]

however, the two companies (mainly ptp since there the ones getting mad and all) "oh u have a trigger that uses gas! well you cant do that! only we can do that! you read my mind and took my idea!" i mean it almost sounds like they are the little kids.

I definitely don't know all the details of this situation, but I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume it's just slightly more complicated than that. PTP would need a lot more evidence than simply "a trigger that uses gas" (exhibit A: Tipmann RT) to get mixed up in all this paperwork. One of the parties is obviously very familiar with how the other's operates, and feels that they are entirely too similar to allow production of.

Now whether one of them was truly first and/or "stolen" or anything of that sort remains to be seen. Not really sure the point of this post... oh and I'm not trying to call you "just a kid" or anything, but I also sincerely doubt that one of the two broke in anywhere for the sole purpose of stealing plans. I haven't seen reason for paintball companies to stoop THAT low... yet...

[GT]

my hometown houston only a few miles away from me.

who are you? Doesnt matter what really happened because we will never know, lol.

[msm0711]

ramble: on

ptp is in a place that is remote like..iowa...or something...i dont know..

ramble: off

PTP's in Florida..... Remote? Texas has deserts, tumble weeds, and "cow pokes", how long does it take you to drive to the next state over?

[evan123]

lol Houston is tall buildings. Anyway, i just am hoping that this comes out. I have patience because we all know that good quality products take time even when people try to put roadbumps to further slow them down.

[Blazestorm]

Seriously though, PTP has not come up with anything hugely original. They haven't significantly revolutionized part of paintball, DW blew people away when they began showing the hAir trigger, people throughout the world could not believe it.

Out of no-where comes PTP who patented the same idea before DW could because the patent offices are flooded. PTP has more money, DW is a small business milling bodies out of a small shop.

DW is the one who blew people away, they deserve the patent, not PTP.

[evan123]

Seriously though, PTP has not come up with anything hugely original. They haven't significantly revolutionized part of paintball, DW blew people away when they began showing the hAir trigger, people throughout the world could not believe it.

Out of no-where comes PTP who patented the same idea before DW could because the patent offices are flooded. PTP has more money, DW is a small business milling bodies out of a small shop.

DW is the one who blew people away, they deserve the patent, not PTP.

Well said! Its just kind of sad how a larger company goes and has to ruin a smaller companies

[spantol]

The Priority Date on PTP's patent was November 2000, IIRC. This means that they had the idea and submitted the paperwork four years ago--seemingly long before the hAir was around.

[Chronobreak]

yeah i dono but it sounds to me like ptp saw the buzz around the hair trigger and get ancy and hurried to finish the patent and get it out.

had the hair never been revealed maybe ptp would never had made it

btw i think tom probly found out pretty quick given agd and ptp past cooperation about them making a pneu trigger.

colin probly felt left int he cold

ptp had a quote not too long ago i believe sayign soemthing like but not exactly

" ptp has cooperated with other companies in the past and we dont see why we couldnt work out this one to make both parties happy"

[shatter_storm]

The thing that gets me is that you all are jumping to conclusions about the interactions between DW and PTP. Has nicad come out and said that he will not be releasing the hAir trigger because of PTP's patent? Has PTP said that they have lawyers on standby if/when nicad releases his hAir?

My understanding of the situation (from what has been officially announced) is that PTP holds claim on a patent that is similar to the way nicad set up the hAir. The two companies need to talk to each other and figure out if that is true, and if so, what sort of licensing is necessary so that both companies can do what they want. Until they can come to an agreement in that respect, neither of them should say or do anything as it can possibly be incriminating and provide some major fuel towards lawsuits and legal troubles.

I don't think either one "stole" anything, I don't think PTP is "pulling a smartparts" and I don't think getting all up in a huff about the situation is a good idea.
PTP thought up an idea a few years ago, patented it, and now can do what they wish within the realm of patent law. Intellilectual property, patents, and their legal mumbo-jumbo is a horrible thing to get tangled up in, not only in the paintball industry but in others, such as the software industry. Usually, the company with the most money wins the fight, and I have a good feeling that neither PTP or DW wants to go to that length in this regard. They'll both lose something, whether it be money, time, rights to an idea, or respect in the industry.

The only things that will end this situation are time and sensible people talking it over - so what we as the consumers have to do is wait. It's really horrible, because I want to be able to tap out 16 bps on my mag just as much as everyone else, but there's no sense making endless threads screaming for updates and deriding PTP and DW for not getting their acts together.

[Lethargic]

ramble: on
ok. read title. someone must have either copied someone or come up with EXACTLY the same idea.

Ya know, I recently learned in my math class that Issac Newton and another guy in France (whose name I cannot recall for the life of me) INDEPENDENTLY developed Calculus. Neither of them saw the other's work, and neither was helped by someone who saw the other person's work. It was not until the Frence guy published his work that Issac Newton (who had actually started developing calculus earlier) heard that he had any sort of a competitor. Now, this in itself is kind of off topic, but consider:

An ENTIRE branch of Mathematics (3 years of college classes!)
vs.
A trigger frame activated by pneumatics.

Which one is more complicated? Which one would oyu more expect people to independently develop? Not only that, but what makes you all think that they work the same? Have you guys seen how the PTP frame works? How about the "hAir?" Unless I missed something, neither design is fully understood by the average forumgoer.

Soooo...

STOP ARGUING ABOUT THINGS YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND!!! IT ONLY MAKES YOU LOOK DUMB IN THE LONG RUN!!!(/breathe)

ahh....

[WARPED1]

. ptp is in a place that is remote like..iowa...or something..

PTP is about 45 minutes from me here in Florida. Where the hell did you get Iowa?!!?

[Lethargic]

Seriously though, PTP has not come up with anything hugely original. They haven't significantly revolutionized part of paintball, DW blew people away when they began showing the hAir trigger, people throughout the world could not believe it.

Out of no-where comes PTP who patented the same idea before DW could because the patent offices are flooded. PTP has more money, DW is a small business milling bodies out of a small shop.

DW is the one who blew people away, they deserve the patent, not PTP.

Sorry dude, but PTP had the patent in years before the hAir came up as anything close to an actual product. This whole "PTP doesn't deserve it" thing is childish, and I'm not going to go into it. It is hardly an aguement at all, and comes off as more of a whine.

Oh, and PTP is really not a big business of any sort. No paintball company has the clout, size, or money to be considered "big." Think about it. Microsoft, G&E, Cingular, and... PTP?

Sorry dude, doesn't quite work...

[Rhinopkc]

You guys are overlooking the fact that putting a pneumatic trigger on a Mag is not a new idea, Punisher did one a long time ago. All PTP and Deadlywind did was put some effort into making it a neater package. Quit about PTP, they haven't done anything wrong here, there have been many times throughout history that people have come up with the same idea and one guy beat the other to the patent office. You guys that are whining about PTP are not being reasonable because you are biased toward Deadlywind and are not considering PTP's side.