Why are there legal troubles between D.W. and PTP? (reasoning inside)

[madmolly]

Muzik

Just reading what your post said brought curiousity. Did tom have something to do with the military paintball guns they patented in the 70s or something else or were you being sarcastic and I missed the whole point.

[alooney11]

When is the hair trigger coming out?

[slade]

When is the hair trigger coming out?

[craltal]

[rant]

alooney,
STOP ASKING THE SAME DAMN QUESTION IN EVERY FORUM! WE DON"T KNOW AND ALL YOU ARE DOING IS PISSING OFF A BUNCH OF US WITH THIS CHILDISH IDIOCY.

thorn,
Just because you live in Houston doesn't give you the right to think you are better than the whole state of Florida. You live in a big city, big deal. I used to live in Philadelphia, which is ranked #5 compared to your #4 according to the 2000 census and actually prefer the feel of a smaller city. As for the level of industrial espionage you suggest, you think we should call this "hAirgate"

PTP has not brought legal action against DW, if you actually bother to read the information, DW postponed the development because he found out someone else was working on a very similar product and needed to discuss the matter with them before proceeding. My guess is that PTP wasn't going to enter into discussions until the patent that they applied for in 2000 was finalized. The fact that they didn't release a prototype 3 years ago doesn't mean squat. That was a decision they made and was fully their right to do. Both parties are doing the responsible thing here and just because it means that you don't have one of these frames underneath you xmas tree is no reason for you to act like four year olds. I'm getting tired of the lack of maturity. Go take some ridilin and ram your head into a tree for a while. Maybe you'll knock something back into place. Or better yet, go play over a pbn.

[/rant]

[WARPED1]

[rant]

alooney,
STOP ASKING THE SAME DAMN QUESTION IN EVERY FORUM! WE DON"T KNOW AND ALL YOU ARE DOING IS PISSING OFF A BUNCH OF US WITH THIS CHILDISH IDIOCY.

thorn,
Just because you live in Houston doesn't give you the right to think you are better than the whole state of Florida. You live in a big city, big deal. I used to live in Philadelphia, which is ranked #5 compared to your #4 according to the 2000 census and actually prefer the feel of a smaller city. As for the level of industrial espionage you suggest, you think we should call this "hAirgate"

PTP has not brought legal action against DW, if you actually bother to read the information, DW postponed the development because he found out someone else was working on a very similar product and needed to discuss the matter with them before proceeding. My guess is that PTP wasn't going to enter into discussions until the patent that they applied for in 2000 was finalized. The fact that they didn't release a prototype 3 years ago doesn't mean squat. That was a decision they made and was fully their right to do. Both parties are doing the responsible thing here and just because it means that you don't have one of these frames underneath you xmas tree is no reason for you to act like four year olds. I'm getting tired of the lack of maturity. Go take some ridilin and ram your head into a tree for a while. Maybe you'll knock something back into place. Or better yet, go play over a pbn.

[/rant]

I think it's funny that when it comes to mag stuff, you fully understand and support the patent process, but when SP did it, yall get your panties in a bunch! Can you say double standard? [Mr. Rogers]Gooooooooooooooooooooood, I knew you could![/end Mr. Rogers]

[SlartyBartFast]

I think it's funny that when it comes to mag stuff, you fully understand and support the patent process, but when SP did it, yall get your panties in a bunch! Can you say double standard? [Mr. Rogers]Gooooooooooooooooooooood, I knew you could![/end Mr. Rogers]

I think it's pathetic that people can't see the difference between the two issues.

The SP patent is invalid, too braod, and was extended and changed to claim far more than the original patent, but they are strongarming smaller companies into accepting their terms due to their financial clout.

[craltal]

I think it's funny that when it comes to mag stuff, you fully understand and support the patent process, but when SP did it, yall get your panties in a bunch! Can you say double standard? [Mr. Rogers]Gooooooooooooooooooooood, I knew you could![/end Mr. Rogers]

too bad you don't understand what actually happened. SP's patent is for something that they didn't come up with, but rather bought. Also none of the parties we are discussing have actually gone into a courtroom or even brought any suits out against anyone whereas SP has. Did you read the judges ruling that SP's claim was invalid? Notice that since that ruling SP has stopped filing lawsuits?

Get your facts straight before you try calling me out. And leave the late Fred Rogers out of it.

[gibby]

Come to think of it...it is kind of crazy. Sure, DW and PTP might have the same idea but the mechanics might differ from each other. One of the comparisons that came to mind when first reading this thread was...computers. We have intel, AMD, macs based computers. All manipulate binary data...all are different architectures that work differently but basically achieve the same thing...running software.

Is competition such a bad thing? I always thought that competition was good because it pushes the industry and the products. Hopefully PTP and DW can both release their products without getting into such an ugly mess/debate.

[SlartyBartFast]

Come to think of it...it is kind of crazy. Sure, DW and PTP might have the same idea but the mechanics might differ from each other. One of the comparisons that came to mind when first reading this thread was...computers. We have intel, AMD, macs based computers. All manipulate binary data...all are different architectures that work differently but basically achieve the same thing...running software.

Is competition such a bad thing? I always thought that competition was good because it pushes the industry and the products. Hopefully PTP and DW can both release their products without getting into such an ugly mess/debate.

Competition isn't a bad thing and your examples are poorly chosen. The computer world is absolutely overrun with patents, liscencing, and bizzare stories of reverse engineering and patent issue avoidance.

To directly answer the question asked originally in this thread:

There are troubles because we are lucky enough to live in a society where the right of someone to benefit from their own creativity and ingenuity as well as the right to property (both physical and intellectual) is protected by law.

Without the protection of patents it would be the little guys that would be wiped out. Every new idea would be copied and sold by whoever could make it the cheapest and all the real creators would go bankrupt on development and prototyping costs.

[WARPED1]

I think it's pathetic that people can't see the difference between the two issues.

The SP patent is invalid, too braod, and was extended and changed to claim far more than the original patent, but they are strongarming smaller companies into accepting their terms due to their financial clout.

Wrong. In 1996, SP and WDP started develpment on electros. Pneu Ventures, which was under SP contract, applied for a patent first. Pneu Ventures was bought out by SP, and everything created and applied for by PVI became the intelectual property of SP. WDP applied for nothing. The patent wasn't awarded until recently, after much debate. Maybe it's to broad, but don't blame SP, blame the rules of the US Patent office.

[craltal]

Wrong. In 1996, SP and WDP started develpment on electros. Pneu Ventures, which was under SP contract, applied for a patent first. Pneu Ventures was bought out by SP, and everything created and applied for by PVI became the intelectual property of SP. WDP applied for nothing. The patent wasn't awarded until recently, after much debate. Maybe it's to broad, but don't blame SP, blame the rules of the US Patent office.

Please read. SP lost in court back in August.

http://www.68caliber.com/news/industry/story04341.php

[SlartyBartFast]

Wrong. In 1996, SP and WDP started develpment on electros. Pneu Ventures, which was under SP contract, applied for a patent first. Pneu Ventures was bought out by SP, and everything created and applied for by PVI became the intelectual property of SP. WDP applied for nothing. The patent wasn't awarded until recently, after much debate. Maybe it's to broad, but don't blame SP, blame the rules of the US Patent office.

Wrong right back at you.

The initial patent was clearly for the Shocker. The extended contract broadened the patent to cover all conceivable electros.

Yes, the ultimate problem is the patent office. But it takes slime to take advantage of obvious legal loopholes and the inattention of the authorities.

[rabidchihauhau]

Supporting Slarty

A BUNCH of hooey has been unleashed in here by people who have their facts wrong, totally misunderstand intellectual property, spout off rumor and innuendo they heard from someone who heard it from someone who saw it written on a piece of paper floating in the toilet after they flushed...

Shut up If you don't know the facts, just shut up. If you don't understand intellectual property law, just shut up. If you think business should be conducted on the basis of what you think someone else should do with their money, just shut the flippin H up!

NONE of you know what is going on behind the scenes at PTP and DW. I don't even know anymore because I'm not at PTP any longer.

What I do know is this:

the guy who said smart parts patented the electro first failed to mention John Rice's UK patents.

the people who think that 'punisher' invented all of this first are completely unfamiliar with the way claims work in a patent. One thing a patent application has to go through is an examination of ALL of the prior inventions that might cover the same thing as the application does. PTP got all of their original claims granted.

PTP's patent coverage for this goes back to 1999. Work on the concept goes back multiple years even before that. I know. I was there. If anyone in the industry has the 'right' to a patent on the device that they have developed into their assisted trigger system, its pro-team.

Get this. There is a MAJOR difference between 'having an idea' and getting a patent for a 'device' which performs the function envisioned by the 'idea'.

If I'm sitting there in the shadow of the pyramids, lamenting the fact that the desert winds keep on blowing my papyrus all over the place, and I think to myself, 'hey, it would be a great idea if I had something that could hold these sheets of papyrus together' - that's the 'idea'. A paper clip is the device. A staple and a stapler are a device. A piece of tape is a device. A GBC binding is a device. A three ring binder is a device. They are all MUCH MORE than the 'idea' of having something to hold papyri (?) together.

Get it?

I thought not.

So just shut up!

[alooney11]

Slade: seriously that was hilarious i laughed my *** off.

Ps. When is the hair trigger coming out?

[ej_y4]

Slade: seriously that was hilarious i laughed my *** off.

Ps. When is the hair trigger coming out?

go away troll