AGD at a crossroad.. where do you want it to go?

[Wc Keep]

scenario ballers may outnumber tourney players but the number of times they play and number of guns they buy is greatly lower than that of tourney players. a scenario baller plays once when there is a big game and plays with the same gun they did 3 years ago. a tourney players goes through 4 guns a year and plays everyweekend. i would rather market to the person buying 4 guns hoping that all 4 will be mags.

[JoshK]

well if you check out my thread...and vote, you can see tourny is stomping scenario

[Wc Keep]

True. However, most scenario players arent sponsored or require their gear at below cost. All the tourney players I know do.

Id rather sell 1 marker at full price to a scenario player, then 4 markers at $1 above cost to a tourney player who turns around and sells it online and ruins the retail market because it cost them very little to get.

well we can break this down a bit.....

the only tourney players that really require their markers at $1 above cost are the high up tourney players. im talking d1 nppl and a couple of the d2 teams, and the high up psp teams.and they are going direct to the gun maker. most local tourney players do not get their guns for that cheap. they usually go to their local shop sponsorand get their guns for their cost. so the gun manufacturer still makes the same profit.

[CoolHand]

well we can break this down a bit.....

the only tourney players that really require their markers at $1 above cost are the high up tourney players. im talking d1 nppl and a couple of the d2 teams, and the high up psp teams.and they are going direct to the gun maker. most local tourney players do not get their guns for that cheap. they usually go to their local shop sponsorand get their guns for their cost. so the gun manufacturer still makes the same profit.

Ah yes, the manufacturer made some money, but when they turn around and sell it for half of what they paid for it three months ago, the dealer takes it squarely in the . . . . never mind.

You want to sell a mag to the new guys (the guys who are considering a spyder or clone)?

Make the damned thing run off of CO2.

It won't shoot 26 bps then? Who cares. I know I sure don't.

If they could sell aluminum classics complete, and keep them in the $250 range, they could sell a ton of them.

Need to open the tolerances up a bit to make them cheaper? Do it.

Cockers run with tolerances so big you can stick your finger in there, there is no reason that you can't build a mag valve that can do the same thing.

Now, put the flamethrowers down, I don't mean go to uber crappy finshes, milled with a banana stuff. I mean, go from +-0.001" to +-0.007". You'd be amazed how much that would cut out of the cost (I'd estimate at least 15-20% over the long haul).

I've also never liked the external airlines, but the banjo bolt is not the solution. Maybe try thinking outside the box on this one?

But what do I know . . . . .

As always, your mileage may vary.

[CoolHand]

For once, I think we are in agreement

:rofl: Yeah, you posted while I was typing my little tyraid up.

I saw your post, and I said to my self - "Well, I'll be damned . . . ."

These are strange days indeed.

Have a good holiday.

[Arson51]

i think the best points were made by the self made buisnessmen here. if the new agd president, was cut from a simiilar cloth than the mag will definatly not become a footnote in paintball history.

[11_Mile_TMaster]

Ditch level 10. You heard me, no one cares.

Get eyes. Proactive solution to chopping. Can queue shots.

Make it a spyder style sear tripper with ULT. Provide proprietary rechargable battery in the grip frame.

Make an attractive body. Anyone of Nicad's would work. Mags have never had any milling, so they haven't sold. People don't want to shoot an ugly gun, no matter what.

AGD's intrinsic problem has ALWAYS been that they are somehow "right" and everyone else is wrong.

And their markers have been getting hammered in sales for years because of it. Not only that, They've doggedly stuck by LX, the COPS of mags.

You guys know its true. A mag could be produced for $300 that would own most everything. Hell, give it a 15bps capped board that queues shots from the eyes, use those 16bps classic valves, give it some milling, foregrip, and a gasthrough rail, and watch it destroy WGP's Trilogy.

-Level 10 is great, and works quite well. In my group of fellow paintballers that I go play with, 3 of us use Mags, and all 3 of us see the Level 10 as one of the main reasons we bought them.

-Your spyder syle sear tripper is the Hyperframe.

-Mags are far from 'ugly.' I personally prefer the look of my ULE mag to my old Cocker, wtherever it may be.

-AGD has a certain level of innovation before acceptance. Look at Nitro, More ergonomically correct grips, the force feed hopper. All were done by AGD and it took years for them to gain acceptance in the market.

-I'll restate. Level 10 works well. Comparing it to COPS is rather humorous and inaccurate.

-Uhh... You really have no clue how much it costs to actually PRODUCE things, let alone R&D, do you?

[WenULiVeUdiE]

-Your spyder syle sear tripper is the Hyperframe.

That would be great if it was still made. Yes there is the Devilmag, but that is pricey and doesnt seem like there will be as many as the hyperframe. ( Waiting for GA Devil to correct me)

Also, referring to the COPS/Level 10 statement above.
Many people want something that has no chance of ever chopping a ball. Yes, level 10 will not chop the most brittle paint when sut up properly. But some people dont want any chance of even weakening the paint. Honestly, I'd rather have a system like ACE where it doesnt bounce off, it stays off the ball.

[NewMagMan21]

You want to sell a mag to the new guys (the guys who are considering a spyder or clone)?

Make the damned thing run off of CO2

If they could sell aluminum classics complete, and keep them in the $250 range, they could sell a ton of them.

HERE! HERE!

Being new to Mags can be quite intimidating (new personal experience) First off being new and having to spend up towards $100-$200 for a nitro tank. Then you have to go through the process of buying an ASA, then hoses, and then a barrel then you have the very base classic mag that cost you about 400-500 bucks. The reason newbies dont like these marker is because spending that much money is a big comitment especially if you dont like the marker and you end up spending a lot more money to compete with "The Jones's" marker.
(THAT WAS NOT MY EXPERIENCE BY THE WAY, just clarifying that)
Anway Newbs like low costs (make CO2 markers)
they like simplicity (I.E. complete marker)
That would definately make some cash, and produce future sale because newbs wont grow up with the mags suck mentality.

[lather]

For the first time players:

Level 7 mag with bottomline and comes complete with 12-14 oz anti-siphon co2 tank.

First time gun owners need a tank to go with their gun, why not give them an anti-siphon tank with the level 7 mag as a complete package? If not antisiphon, perhaps an expansion chamber/foregrip. Either way is adequate for CO2.

And when its time to upgrade, instead of buying a different gun, which may not be a mag, they might be tempted to upgrade to HPA instead. Since the bottomline is already there, its an easy and tangible upgrade for first time buyers. (It may also ensure that they will keep the mag around a little longer as well.)

[cledford]

At one point Tom stated in the Tac1 thread he was working on a C02 drop in upgrade (?) for the Xvalve. I don't know what ever happened to it - but C02 was the number one feature that the scenario players identifed in their "wish list."

I wonder what ever happened with the C02 conversion and if it will ever be developed to production. I wonder how many other great ideas might have just walked out the door with Tom Kaye. If someone was smart they'd give Tom some time to relax - then pay him a nice fee for "consulting." He can develop the solutions to the problems without all of the other crap that comes along with running the business. He gets to do what he enjoys and someone else drives the business part - sounds like a good deal...

-Calvin

[felony]

The Banjo bolt was not as bad as people tried to make it out to be.

As for changing the valve to use an inline reg rather than the integrated reg really does not take much and it will make the valve smaller. It will still operate the exact same.

Since most of the people put a big foregrip on their guns anyway, why not fill that tube with a few parts and lighten up the valve.

now that is an awesome idea.

and also find a way to get like another few hundered shots outta setup.

dan

[felony]

That would be great if it was still made. Yes there is the Devilmag, but that is pricey and doesnt seem like there will be as many as the hyperframe. ( Waiting for GA Devil to correct me)

Also, referring to the COPS/Level 10 statement above.
Many people want something that has no chance of ever chopping a ball. Yes, level 10 will not chop the most brittle paint when sut up properly. But some people dont want any chance of even weakening the paint. Honestly, I'd rather have a system like ACE where it doesnt bounce off, it stays off the ball.

another good point, and more then likely its easier to do that AND save some gas mileage.. MORE EFFICIENCY!

dan

[alouba]

i think the separate companies like rouge, nicad, coolhand, should have links on the adg site. i think they should merge, and be kinda like smart parts page
whatever smart part is, they're nothing if not advertising experts

and the site needs a facelift and better layout, more, bigger, and better pics of mags

i think if the paintball population was more educated, more people would buy mags
i think if u looked at the total amount of people that frequent paintball forums and thus are at least somewhat educated you will find that there's a larger percentage then in the general paintball population

i dunno, better looking bodies will help too, but i don't see a way to lower price unless the small comapanies grows

merging with qloader also sounds like a good idea to me
the two companies sound similar to me, both inovative and have exellent customer support

[bryceeden]

OK, first and most importantly make a cheaper CO2 version.

I also think get back into the tourney circuit, but not the pros. What I would do is give permision to all of the six million all mag teams to put AGD on thier jerseys. It is a no expense venture that gets you publicity and most of them would be extreamly happy to do it. I would also give small sponsorships(like hats or t-shirts) and AGD banners to good local teams across the country and have them promote to thier local players let them test the markers and such because if a kid sees one in the hands of a pro he'll never meet then he thinks its cool but if the best team at a local tourney uses them and then lets him try one he'll buy one.

But the most important issue in my mind is make a CO2 compadable version in the $250 price range. I also agree matching colors would help alot.