PB Fantasy Governing Committee

[Jeffy-CanCon]

I agree that paintball could use a governing body, but I'm not sure how/why it should be industry-dominated. Does Adidas or Nike get a seat on the board of FIFA? Do the makers of the Louisville Slugger get a say in the future of baseball?

The purpose of a governing body is to set rules for competition, determine eligibility of players and equipment, and develop referees and coaches. While industry people are typically former players, and have good technical/legal knowledge, they are in a conflict of interest with regards to competitive play since they all use that play as a way to promote their individual businesses. The industry must be subordinate to any governing body, or the whole exercise is a waste of time.

Also, recreational play should be left out of it. Rec play is too free-form for real regulation, and most players like it that way. About the only thing that a governing body could offer recreational players is a set of safety rules for fields, and the insurance industry already does that.

A governing body will come, eventually. Paintball is still a pretty young sport, and many of the first generation of serious players are still playing. If you look at other sport governing bodies, they tend to be run by people whose competitive involvement is behind them, but whose passion for their sport drives them to stay involved. Paintball will have people like that some day, but I don't think we have them yet.

[PBX Ronin 23]

A governing body will come, eventually. Paintball is still a pretty young sport, and many of the first generation of serious players are still playing. If you look at other sport governing bodies, they tend to be run by people whose competitive involvement is behind them, but whose passion for their sport drives them to stay involved. Paintball will have people like that some day, but I don't think we have them yet.

They're already here. Dave Youngblood, Chuck Hendsch, the Gardners and Bobby Long.

Is isn't an exercise in organization. It's one of conceptualization. But I do understand where you're coming from.

[Jeffy-CanCon]

And what exactly do the 9.9 million recreational and rental players get for their $1/day? Rules and equipment standards for tournements they don't play. Duplicated safety rules already set out by the ASTM & insurance industry. And protective political lobbying already being done by the paintball manufacturers.


BTW - A battalion of lawyers??
$200/hr x 35hrs/wk x 48wks/yr = $336K
$10M/$336K = 29.76 (a platoon!)

[Jeffy-CanCon]

They're already here. Dave Youngblood, Chuck Hendsch, the Gardners and Bobby Long.

Is isn't an exercise in organization. It's one of conceptualization. But I do understand where you're coming from.

Those people are involved in the industry side. They can't be trusted to make impartial decisions with regards to equipment standards or playing rules when they depend on the results of their sponsored teams for advertising. Find their teammates from the late 1980's, or early 90's, who no longer play competitively and don't work in the industry.

The basic concept is a good one, and competitive paintball certainly needs a governing body higher than the league.

[PBX Ronin 23]

And what exactly do the 9.9 million recreational and rental players get for their $1/day? Rules and equipment standards for tournements they don't play. Duplicated safety rules already set out by the ASTM & insurance industry. And protective political lobbying already being done by the paintball manufacturers.


BTW - A battalion of lawyers??
$200/hr x 35hrs/wk x 48wks/yr = $336K
$10M/$336K = 29.76 (a platoon!)

For starters, let's make the following assumptions that what is derived from the top, trickles down to the base.

Certification beyond contestation on products such as lenses. Quality standards on materials used on hoppers (per se) that ensures it won't snap the very first day you buy it. Intelligently designed products revolving around safety instead of products revolving around low cost of manufacturing......do you want me to go any further how it will impact the players at the base of the totem pole?

If you're paying attorneys to spend that kind of billable hours, they better be also defending the industry against lawsuits. In the practical world, it's highly unlikely that they would bill that many hours......but then again this is an exercise in fantasy, isn't it?

[PBX Ronin 23]

Those people are involved in the industry side. They can't be trusted to make impartial decisions with regards to equipment standards or playing rules when they depend on the results of their sponsored teams for advertising. Find their teammates from the late 1980's, or early 90's, who no longer play competitively and don't work in the industry.

The basic concept is a good one, and competitive paintball certainly needs a governing body higher than the league.

Jeffy CC, like I said earlier, this is all a conceptual fantasy discussion. We aren't even looking at the practical execution of how to bring this idea beyond the concept phase. There are most certainly difficulties involved with such an undertaking.

[PBX Ronin 23]

Why Chuck Hendsch and Paul Sattler?

[Chronobreak]

Who would like to see on that Committee?
Would you trust the future in their hands?
Would you pay an extra $1 sur charge at your fields to fund this organization.

i dont know enough industry people to make a decision there. the anmes u ahd sound about right. but btw i think tom and budd are done for the msot part although they could probly do the msot good on such a counsel.

would i trust them? yeah for the most part but i think teh organization should be clsoely monitored and kept in check..i think the diff interest woul keep the group in check mostly

would the fee be included in paint fee or a field fee?...people arent gonna want to pay as some others have said ex first timers and people who rarely if ever play.

1$ sounds reasonable for a fee...but its gonna hurt the regular players like me the msot having to pay $1 each time i play...+ paint +my equipment + w/e else...more $ is more $ and p-ball is expenisve enough.

[shartley]

[PBX Ronin 23]

If you are simply wanting to discuss it in a fantasy context, why not add Santa Clause and the Easter Bunny on the panel as well?

LOL. Under the premise of this thread, why not. I'm sure that there's less than six degrees of separation between your candidates and the sport of paintball.

It's not that I'm brushing aside meaningfull comments. What I hope is that the self-effident stuff (i.e. the difficulties of even having all these people in the same room together, let alone working with each other) will be blatantly apparent to all. My apologies if that is not the case.

What's more important is understanding the need for a discussion on this concept, the role of each sector and the potential contributions of individuals named within those sectors. As the thread develops further, I will address recurring comments and take it from there.

There is no right or wrong opinion on this concept.

[SlartyBartFast]

Duplicated safety rules already set out by the ASTM & insurance industry. And protective political lobbying already being done by the paintball manufacturers.

Well, I'd have to disagree on all those points.

The ASTM is voluntary and currently is ignored by all. It will only be an issue if and when a court case arises and industry standards are questioned.

Insurance is reactionary. Unless something happens they won't write it into their policy. If they are not made aware of possible problems or issues, they may well overreact once an accident happens or a claim is made.

And the paintball industry does painfully little lobbying. Apart from volunteer work of Jessica Sparks and a limited few.

[RetroEclipseMan]

I can't agree more with what Jeff CC is saying. Even if those guys (Dave YB, Bobby Long, The Gardners, ect.) aren't physically playing pb competively doesn't still give them strong ties to thier teams they sponser and the product they sell is determined whether or not their teams are winning. They just have too much invested in the league that would not allow them to make impartial desicions even if they wanted to. We'd basically end up having what's already in place, company politics screwing over the game.

And really think about it, even if field prices were jacked up only $1, you'd be paying almost $60 a year more if you played 1 time week. Now while it may not seem a lot it is at the rec level, especially if the rec guys really wouldn't be getting a whole lot in return, not mention the whole commity according to what you've set represents the whole tourny scene. Also the other problem with this type of funding is how do you really make sure each field is taking part in it equally with all the other fields.They could just do away with field fees all together and just jack up apint price $15-20 tover what they would lose in entry fees. I know a lot of places have players that only practice there and don't pay for entry but only paint. I think if the rec ballers were going to fund it then you'd have to have the field it self pay a set fee every year that was the same for every field and then let them adjust their fees to make up the cost.

I still think that if you're going to have a commity to govern the whole sport that you just gotta leave out all the big names cause big names are still gonna be influenced by some outside perogative not matter what. Lets say you have manufacturers on the board and trying to put a bps cap for safety a paint manufacture or someone who has a connection with one isn't going to go for that since you know it's gonna decrease paint sales which will be bad for the that board member and really are only caring about personal gains, which is very evident in real politics and government.

[shartley]

LOL. Under the premise of this thread, why not. I'm sure that there's less than six degrees of separation between your candidates and the sport of paintball.

It's not that I'm brushing aside meaningfull comments. What I hope is that the self-effident stuff (i.e. the difficulties of even having all these people in the same room together, let alone working with each other) will be blatantly apparent to all. My apologies if that is not the case.

What's more important is understanding the need for a discussion on this concept, the role of each sector and the potential contributions of individuals named within those sectors. As the thread develops further, I will address recurring comments and take it from there.

There is no right or wrong opinion on this concept.

[PBX Ronin 23]

Please don't take this as a flame, but I could hardly decipher what you're saying. Let me at least attempt to respond though.....

First of, let's accept one thing in life, Politics exists in many levels and there's just no plausible way to function within soceity, business and in your community without it. The same applies in paintball. The problem is not finding what separates people. That's easy. A better approach is that what will bind them together.

In any industry, when outside forces like legislative bodies intervene, usually the biggest casualties are the companies within that industry since they have to carry the burden of any changes to be implemented. If it comes down to that, it behooves each one of the companies within that industry to set their differences aside and find a common ground to rally to.

Second, the Mechanics of collecting those fees. Well one of the things I thought about is to possibly build it into what the fields would eventually give to the insurance companies. But let's not sweat those details for now. Just understand that there are possible means to do so.

Third, if you were to be affected drastically by something that's being done within your community, would you want to have some say on what goes on? If your answer is yes, then shouldn't the same level of fairness and consideration apply to those in the industry who stands to lose the most? Like the "big names" you've mentioned?

I can't agree more with what Jeff CC is saying. Even if those guys (Dave YB, Bobby Long, The Gardners, ect.) aren't physically playing pb competively doesn't still give them strong ties to thier teams they sponser and the product they sell is determined whether or not their teams are winning. They just have too much invested in the league that would not allow them to make impartial desicions even if they wanted to. We'd basically end up having what's already in place, company politics screwing over the game.

And really think about it, even if field prices were jacked up only $1, you'd be paying almost $60 a year more if you played 1 time week. Now while it may not seem a lot it is at the rec level, especially if the rec guys really wouldn't be getting a whole lot in return, not mention the whole commity according to what you've set represents the whole tourny scene. Also the other problem with this type of funding is how do you really make sure each field is taking part in it equally with all the other fields.They could just do away with field fees all together and just jack up apint price $15-20 tover what they would lose in entry fees. I know a lot of places have players that only practice there and don't pay for entry but only paint. I think if the rec ballers were going to fund it then you'd have to have the field it self pay a set fee every year that was the same for every field and then let them adjust their fees to make up the cost.

I still think that if you're going to have a commity to govern the whole sport that you just gotta leave out all the big names cause big names are still gonna be influenced by some outside perogative not matter what. Lets say you have manufacturers on the board and trying to put a bps cap for safety a paint manufacture or someone who has a connection with one isn't going to go for that since you know it's gonna decrease paint sales which will be bad for the that board member and really are only caring about personal gains, which is very evident in real politics and government.

[Jeffy-CanCon]

Most sports currently have governing bodies on different levels. Some sports have separate amatuer and professional bodies, most divide geographically at the state/province/national level. But to the best of my knowledge, the nature of the separate comittees is hierarchical, and thus there is no theoretical reason why paintball could not have an ultimate governing body the same way that FIFA or the IIHF govern soccer and hockey.

We're agreed on the need to keep industry players off the committee, I see.