PB Fantasy Governing Committee

[minimag03]

It would make us more of a sport. But where is Palmer?!?

-minimag03

[Lurker27]

Shartley...Acceptance and promotion of a major speedball format is a bad thing because it would kill scenario games.

You're implying something highly ridiculous.

[rabidchihauhau]

Lurker,

shartley may not have been that clear with what he said, but I share the basic sentiment:

any form of paintball that 'makes it' (becomes the de facto spectator, marketing, league, whatever) will, so far as the unwashed public is concerned BE paintball.

There was a format proposed years ago called something like 'head shot', in which the only way to elimninate an opponent was to tag them in the head.

Suppose THAT had become big time with coke and espn and etc behind it big time; parents might watch it, but would they let their kids play the non-pro version?

The danger is in FAILING to build in support for all the other forms of paintball when that big whatever it is comes along.

MLB supports little league, high school, college and semi-pro baseball because, even though the version of the game is not the same, its where their fans and players come from.

NFL supports 'pop warner' and etc;

Paintball needs to do the same.

Personally, I felt that a restricted access format, (requiring licensing and etc in order to use it) was one way to go about creating conformity, making sure that the standards WERE standards, and would give folks who expected to make money off of their participation, a protected market. (Why buy a franchise when anyone else out there could use the same format and work their own TV deals? Why invest at all?)

Sadly, that's the environment we're in now. Anyone who wants to spend the money for air time, production costs and etc can get paintball on tv, thus devaluing everyone's efforts. Coke would spend $ for 'the only paintball tv show', but not as much, if at all, for 'one of many'.

[CaliMagFan]

So, we can't govern a sport from one "lumped-together" governing body? Ever heard of FIFA??... They put on this little tounament ever 4 years, called the World Cup. Maybe you've been on AO too much... wink.

Seriously... This is possible, but not pheasable if the board is comprised of industry leaders.. It should be a 3rd party. It may very well be another generation of paintball players before we get our act together in that manner. At the start of the sport you old guys pretty much blew it for us by making it a war game. That stain is going to take some time to wash away.

[shartley]

Shartley...Acceptance and promotion of a major speedball format is a bad thing because it would kill scenario games.

You're implying something highly ridiculous.

So, we can't govern a sport from one "lumped-together" governing body? Ever heard of FIFA??... They put on this little tounament ever 4 years, called the World Cup. Maybe you've been on AO too much... wink.

At the start of the sport you old guys pretty much blew it for us by making it a war game. That stain is going to take some time to wash away.

[PBX Ronin 23]

I honestly don't think it will make it in the long run as they are still missing essential components of a spectator sport and a method for transmitting 'active' interaction between spectators and the game. One primary reason people watch a sport is to vicariously participate in it - to guess what play will come up next, to pit their savy against a coach's, etc., and, so far as I can see, the current crop of television offerings fall far short of providing that capability.

I agree with your points highlighted above. As far as having a standard format of competitive play is concerned, this issue is still unresolved in my mind. Does the NPPL have? They seem content on pushing paintball more as a "life style" rather than a sport. X-Ball has it's flaws that you've very well referenced in your post. The Ultimate Madness 3-Man cage matches has also entered the fray as far as TV is concerned.

This is another thread all onto its own. But for now suffice it to say that the proposed governing body, at some point in time, will have to select an "official" format to accept as the one true format. Otherwise, it will bog down in all the politics of supporting/or not supporting a particular format.

[CaliMagFan]

I can't believe you shartley... You're clearly ignorant about the world of football. My intention in talking about the world cup was to show how broad the scope of FIFA rule is. You certainly seem not to know that every soccer/football reff that: offiicciates any recorded game, at any skill level, or at any age level, or in any league or tournament series, in any country, in the entire world IS FIFA CERTIFIED. Ligua Mexicana, EUFA, MLS.... all FIFA... go talk to your local youth soccer refs and ask them who writes the rule book to which they arbitrate their games.... guess who... FIFA.

now i'm foaming at the mouth, so stop reading if you have a soft ego.

Now I know why people see this place taking a dive. It is people like you that move their fingers to type without prior knowledge of what they type. You're attempting to fabricate facts to sound like the most learned person in the room on a topic, yet you cannot lie well enough. That goes the same for the rest of the people that attempt ventures like yours aforementioned. May I direct you to Cicero's first of five canons of rhetoric: "[Part B. Your subject. Become thouroughly familiar with the ramifications of your subject. If you don't know about it, you shouldn't talk about it. Ideally, you should be the most informed person in the room on the topic which you dicuss...]"

Don't consider that a full-on flame. Just a kind "Check yourself" from your california automag fanatic.

-kyro

[rabidchihauhau]

Calimag,

You seem to be taking everything that Shartley is saying and treating as, first, a personal insult and second, an attack on what I'm presuming is your second favorite sport (the first being paintball, of course).

FIFA sanctions world play and is the body to which individual nation's 'governing bodys' for the sport of soccer belong to. They are the folks who IOC works with in setting up olympic qualifying, rules, officiating, etc.

In one respect, FIFA has been very lucky, in that the US is 'just another country', having come very late to international soccer play, so FIFA got to get its act together with europe, south america, asia, before the US and all its politics could interfere.

I'm not exactly sure why Shartley doesn't consider FIFA to be a good model for what paintball needs to do - I think its as good a model as any other international sport (probably better than some, like the International Badminton Association), but on the other hand I get the impression from your posts that you think its the ONLY viable role model.

So, I'd say, stop getting so upset - some folks like soccer and some hate it, but we all love paintball.

[shartley]

I can't believe you shartley... You're clearly ignorant about the world of football. My intention in talking about the world cup was to show how broad the scope of FIFA rule is. You certainly seem not to know that every soccer/football reff that: offiicciates any recorded game, at any skill level, or at any age level, or in any league or tournament series, in any country, in the entire world IS FIFA CERTIFIED. Ligua Mexicana, EUFA, MLS.... all FIFA... go talk to your local youth soccer refs and ask them who writes the rule book to which they arbitrate their games.... guess who... FIFA.

now i'm foaming at the mouth, so stop reading if you have a soft ego.

Now I know why people see this place taking a dive. It is people like you that move their fingers to type without prior knowledge of what they type. You're attempting to fabricate facts to sound like the most learned person in the room on a topic, yet you cannot lie well enough. That goes the same for the rest of the people that attempt ventures like yours aforementioned. May I direct you to Cicero's first of five canons of rhetoric: "[Part B. Your subject. Become thouroughly familiar with the ramifications of your subject. If you don't know about it, you shouldn't talk about it. Ideally, you should be the most informed person in the room on the topic which you dicuss...]"

Don't consider that a full-on flame. Just a kind "Check yourself" from your california automag fanatic.

-kyro

[shartley]

Calimag,

You seem to be taking everything that Shartley is saying and treating as, first, a personal insult and second, an attack on what I'm presuming is your second favorite sport (the first being paintball, of course).

FIFA sanctions world play and is the body to which individual nation's 'governing bodys' for the sport of soccer belong to. They are the folks who IOC works with in setting up olympic qualifying, rules, officiating, etc.

In one respect, FIFA has been very lucky, in that the US is 'just another country', having come very late to international soccer play, so FIFA got to get its act together with europe, south america, asia, before the US and all its politics could interfere.

I'm not exactly sure why Shartley doesn't consider FIFA to be a good model for what paintball needs to do - I think its as good a model as any other international sport (probably better than some, like the International Badminton Association), but on the other hand I get the impression from your posts that you think its the ONLY viable role model.

So, I'd say, stop getting so upset - some folks like soccer and some hate it, but we all love paintball.

[billmi]

But there already is one sactioning body which controls all amateur and pro paintball in the US.

Or at least that's what they claim.

"The NPPL is the National Professional Paintball League, the sole sanctioning body for all amateur and professional paintball players in North America."
(NPPL About The NPPL page at http://www.nppl.tv/2/nppl_about.htm)

So, if we are to believe that claim, PSP and NXL have to get clearance from NPPL for their events. I kind of doubt it myself.



According to a recent press release, Rabidchihuahua is the founder of the NPPL

"Steve is the founder of the NPPL"
(Press release from Vengance Paintball at http://www.warpig.com/newswire/prwir...98355760.shtml)

Therfore, since all pro/am paintball in North America is under the control of the NPPL, and it was founded by Rabidchihuahua, all current problems with professional and amateur paintball are in some way his fault. :-)



As for FIFA, just like any other sport, in the US, they only have power over the folks that choose to follow them. FIFA can't stop me from setting up a league and using my own rules, nor can the NPPL, etc.

[manike]

<3 u!

[PBX Ronin 23]

As for FIFA, just like any other sport, in the US, they only have power over the folks that choose to follow them. FIFA can't stop me from setting up a league and using my own rules, nor can the NPPL, etc.

Bill is absolutely right and this is a major hurdle for a governing body whose primary purpose is to govern the game instead of governing the industry.

You can find that the collective economic interest of all the segments of the industry (i.e. manufacturers, players, league, field operators, and the ASTM Sub-Com.) can be a much stronger motivation for them to unite than having the solitary interest of one segment (i.e the league) binding them together.

But under the current environment, there has not been a visible outside threat to the overall well-being of the industry for everyone to see and rally against. What can possibly transpire in the courtroom for 2005 may serve as the catalyst and I'm not talking about the ongoing IP litigation either. The potential blanket suit that may be filed that stems from the two fatalities that occurred in 2004 may very well be that catalyst.

[tyrion2323]

They're already here. Dave Youngblood, Chuck Hendsch, the Gardners and Bobby Long.

Is isn't an exercise in organization. It's one of conceptualization. But I do understand where you're coming from.

I usually think you're dead on with your opinions and analyses; but you missed the mark with these guys, man. Paintball companies have proven themselves too untrustworthy when there's a profit to be made.

If you want a committee to regulate, say, Divisions 1, 2 and 3 tournament paintball, you will need to find people who have no money to be made. People who don't have close ties to businesses and teams.

[PBX Ronin 23]

If you want a committee to regulate, say, Divisions 1, 2 and 3 tournament paintball, you will need to find people who have no money to be made. People who don't have close ties to businesses and teams.

Understood and agreed. Hence the major obstacle is making people with divergent economic interests seeing a common need for the common good. Tough thing to do.